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IVANOV WITH STRONG MESSAGE TO EU



National.

The Macedonian president launched a scathing attack against the European Union condemning it for double standards.

"We will not cave under any pressure to change our name or identity just to be a part of the European Union. We've lived this (hi)story many times before, not again. Whatever the outcome of the talks in Brussels, Macedonia will stay right here. We have a European perspective that will be achieved together, with the support of all ethnic and religious communities, all parties and all citizens of Macedonia", Ivanov emphasized.

In the presence of foreign ambassadors in the country, he said that Europe unfortunately still has leaders who allow to be carried away by someone's petty interests and hidden agenda.

"Any violations of EU's principles today, tomorrow will bring new violations, new disorders, dozens of new blockades. Who knows what will be asked of us tomorrow!? Macedonia gets a hesitant response, we receive requests and rules which apply only to us and change from day to day, we let obstructions and pressures from petty interests decide outcomes. We see the absence of vision at the EU. We hear of integration announcements first for 2012, then 2014, 2015. How we can achieve those terms? With obstacles and obstructions", asked Ivanov.


MD: Well done Mr. Ivanov!

[Mina]

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Stubborness will get Macedonia nowhere

We are not Stubon We have evey right to keep our name Macedonia we are Macedonians and Macedonians we will remain who cares about this club the EU. We dont need them Macedonia will prosper as staying as Macedonia the EU will reuin Macedonia.

Macedonians forever United Macedonia is coming.......

About time Ivanov! Time to end this comedy about name negotiations.

Macedonia forever, forever Macedonia!

Stupid discussion. Who cares about the name of the country if the nation will still stay Macedonians? To be proud can be stupid if it is to much in the end. I really love Macedonia and I would still love that country and like their people, even if the country has another name. I really hope that MK wake up some day, otherwise it will be the risk to stay behind the rest of Europe. And the US help only as long as MK give enough soldiers for their wars. Good luck MK.

The above comment is quite stupid. If you are a true Macedonian, you would not accept another name for your country. You don't quite understand that if we are no longer allowed to call ourselves that which we are, Macedonians, then we will cease to exist as Macedonians. Only the Macedonians have the power to change their name, not arvanitovlachs from down south.

Long live Macedonia and the Macedonians! No compromise is needed!

It has been & always will be Republic of Macedonia. Greece has time & again violated our rights, so i don't see why we should continue negotiating with them when they, including that joke of an organization the "EU" , cannot hold up their end of the bargains!!! The EU & NATO are a joke, to let a fascist nation like "Greece" enter, a "country" which does not recognize ANY minorities (excluding muslims), meaning no rights for it's many "hidden" citizens!

Macedonians everywhere will accept nothing less, and it's about time Ivanov took a stand!!

For your information your country's name also violates the right of the northern Greeks to self identify themselves as Macedonians. Because we are Macedonians but we have nothing to do with you people. And we've called ourselves Macedonians long before you came to Macedonia.
I could agree though that what is done is done and that a long time has passed since you and we have created our identities which are distinct.That's why since we are both Macedonians and it is stupid to argue who is "more" Macedonian than the other, let us both negotiate to find a name that seperates us from one another. And this name can only have a geografic qualifier.
Concerning the minority,it should be recognized if it exists, but I ask you how can Greece recognize a minority who calls themselves Macedonians when there are also 2 million Greeks who identify themselves as Macedonians and are not a minority?It just doesn't make any sense. I'm a Macedonian and I don't consider myself anything other than Greek let alone a part of a minority. I've been born in Macedonia,raised there, learned the Macedonian history and speak the Macedonian dialect of Greek and i fully consider myself as Greek.
I hope you can see that your concerns apply to both sides of the border.Nationalistic voices never helped anyone. We are neighbours and will always live together side by side. The whole region of Macedonia is the one that unites ,not separates us. This region has faced greater problems than this one. Let us not be enemies because of other people's interests.

Sorry to burst your athenian bubble, but it is easy to find information on the fact that greece had nothing to do with Macedonia prior to illegally annexing Macedonian land in 1913. After 1913, many christian turks were transplanted from turkey to Macedonia, where they were forced to learn the athenian language. These same christian turks now proclaim that they are the decendants of the ancient Macedonians. How is it possible for them to be Macedonian, when prior to 100 years ago they were turkish speaking christians, and now they are decendants of socrates and other ancients? Why is it that when we are talking ancient history you athenians think you can back it up with evidence, but when modern history is brought up you lot have amnesia?

The truth is that you people didn't identify with Macedonia, and have only tried to identify with it when your government realised that Macedonia was about to declare it's independence from yougoslavia.

PS - even prior to the yugoslavia days we Macedonians always referred to ourselves as Macedonians.

So back to the drawing board to all christian turks who have not been in Macedonia more than 100 years. This history of our land is still fresh in our minds.

Pozdrav do site Makedonci niz svetot!

Dosta bese, razbuuuudi se - svesti se ne spij ti (site ne mrazat)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrko1Dshocw

So, the fact that Greeks from Turkey came to Northen Greece is more important than the fact that ancient Macedonians were speaking, writing and thinking Greek?

In the end, you can have a better argument than what you used! You can say, “hey, we the Macedonians are more Greek than you are”!

But the truth is that we Macedonians are not greek/have never been greek/never considered ourselves anything other than Macedonian by ethnicity. This is evident by the fact that there are Macedonians living in occupied Macedonia (nothern greece) who do not consider themselves greek, but only Macedonian. In fact, there was no such thing as 'greek' before the 1820's. It is easy to find books on the topic of greek nation building where a number of ethnicities such as albanians, vlachs, turks, Macedonians, jews were taught the athenian language and taught how to be 'greeks' when an athenian nation was first being founded in the 1820's-1830's.

Michelos, you yourself have admitted that your family background consisted of people who did not speak athenian as their mother tongue. So tell us, where did your relatives learn these other languages and for what purpose would they have learned them? Could it be that when greece was formed, there were no such thing as 'greeks'?

If the Macedonian name was greek, you athenians would have taken it from us by now. But it isn't yours, the Macedonian name belongs to the Macedonians, not to christian turks transplanted from anatolia to Macedonia after 1913.

Pozdrav do site Makedonci!

Regards,
Your Macedonian friend

So, what you say is that in a land that nobody were speaking Greek, some people decided to force all people to speak a language than nobody speaks. Nice argument! Of course I accept that at the foundation of the modern Greek state, not all people were speaking the same language. That would be impossible since Turks were here for 400 years.

I like the fact that you care so much about my family history. Thanks! So my mother’s side were speaking “pontiaka”. These people were not speaking Turkish and they believed in the Christian God instead of Allah. And you call them “Christian Turks”? What about my father’s side (Crete island)? Are they Christian Turks, Christian Arabs or Orthodox Italians? :D

You believe that I am not Greek. Maybe I am not. But you can not make me (or anybody else) that ancient Macedonians were speaking, writing and thinking Greek.

Me and you communicate in the english language, that does not make us related to the queen of england. Your athenian logic is flawed, as you base it solely on language. Even the ancients have told us that the Macedonians communicated in their own language that could not be understood by the hellenes, hence why the Macedonians were labelled as barbarians. But another flawed logic of you athenians is that you claim history that has happened over 2 millenia ago, and these events cannot be proven or disproven. And when it comes to modern history (history within the last 200 years) you people don't know anything about it, and act like you have amnesia.

You have admitted that your family background is mixed, and that the formation of your nation involved a number of different races eg. albanian, vlach, slavic speaking people (Macedonian and bulgarian), jews, turks. Yet your government claims 98% purity lol! You, mixed race of people to the south of the Republic of Macedonia have become the laughing stock of Europe. We have never claimed to be a pure nation, and acknowledge the various minorities that live in our land, but we have always claimed to be Macedonians by ethnicity.

For your info, there is no such 'slavic' ethnicity. It is purely a linguistical term, just like the term 'latin'. Nobody on earth is slavic by blood. If there was a slavic ethnicity it would mean that the 'slavs' are the overlords of europe, and that every slav is related, from Macedonia to Ruissia. There is no slavic ethnicity. Our Macedonian language belongs to the slavic family of languages, and our ethnicity is and always will be Macedonian.

Aren’t you tired giving us the same response about the language issue? You and me communicate in English but I am sure that you and your mother communicate in an other language. I am also sure that there are written documents that prove this. Can you provide me any written document about the language that ancient Macedonian were speaking that is not Greek? You can also go search in the National museum of Skopje. Please share with us your conclusions!

As for the race issue. You say that you are not pure (means mixed) but you claimed to be Macedonian by ethnicity. Nice! You have the right to be mixed and Macedonians but since we are mixed, we can not be Greeks!

Eat your soup and read this official document. Like this are many others we publish from time to time. You are a mixture of Slavic, Bulgarian, Turk and Rom people. You just have to decide in which race you belong... If somebody don't like it's race and wants to be Macedonian we Greeks as Macedonians can accept him in Greece. It's your choice but rember that Macedonian means Greek!
1920 British Archives:
http://modern-macedonian-history.blogspot.com/2009/12/handbooks-from-archives-of-british.html

So michelle, you base your 'pure greekness' on events that occurred over 2000 years ago once again? As i stated, this info cannot totally verified by today's scholars, that is why the athenian government is hanging onto it's ancient history arguments, because there is no one to totally prove or disprove them.

What we know as fact is that prior to 1913 'greece' had nothing to do with Macedonia. We also know that prior to sometime in the 1820's there was no 'greek' nation ever. We know that after 1913 the people who declared themselves as Macedonians (we are those people) were forcibly assimilated into being 'greek' as their family names, place names, toponyms were changed in order for them to sounds as though they are 'greek'. We also know that many of the native people (the Macedonians) were forced out of their homes and were dispersed through out Europe, America and Australia, and that the chrisitans from anatolia and other parts of modern day Turkey were transplanted into Macedonian land and were given 'greek' names and were taught the 'greek' language. This is what we know. This is still fresh in our minds and will not be forgotten. These are the facts whether you believe them or not. We, the Macedonians have declared ourselves as such long before asia minor imports thought it was fashionable to call themselves Macedonians. How can they be Macedonian when they have no history to the area prior to 1913???

Did you know that there are thousands of Macedonians that are taking the athenian goverment to court over lost land and houses??? The figure is said to be in the billions of dollars!

Everyday we hear of a new scandal coming out of athens, with the latest one being that the athens govt paying hundreds of millions of dollars to try to persuade the athenian population that 'Macedonia is greek'. Why would you need to do this if it is already known by the public??? Another nail in the coffin for athenian lies towards Macedonia. The world is laughing at your actions towards us Macedonians.

We Macedonians are going nowhere. We exist solely as Macedonians and that will not change. There is nothing the athenian nation can blackmail us with to change this. Slowly European nations are waking up and can see athens' bullshit. We Macedonians will sit back and watch your downfall.

Long live the Republic of Macedonia and the Macedonians.

Pozdrav do site Makedonci!

Now with the 'greek' journalist bribes it will be officially acceptable to boycott any 'greek' journalism related towards the Republic of Macedonia, as we will not know whether the journalists have been bribed or not. Basically the credibility of athenian journalism is in the toilet. But then again, it always was...

When did I say that today’s Greeks are pure. I didn’t. Don’t put words I didn’t use to my mouth.

We know that prior to 1913 there were people declaring themselves as Greeks and also they were also speaking this language. We also know that after 1913 land outside today’s Greece (FYROM, Albania & Bulgaria) were given non-Greek names (What you call Bitola was Monastir. Even the Turks during the occupation were using that name). People living at these places were forced to change their names and of course their language. So don’t try to manipulate me with the “bad Greek wolf” story. We also can not forget your actions.

About the “scandal”, you read the news the way it fits you! It was a scandal because money that supposed to serve one purpose, it served the purposes of a political party. That’s the scandal. The scandal is for us, the Greeks because we pay these taxes! These money supposed to be spend outside Greece to strength our position.

I am sure, FYROM’s government pays nobody to promote it’s position!

You yourself may say that 'greece' is not a pure nation, but your racist government pushes another agenda. 98% pure?

We also know that prior to 1913 there were people declaring themselves as nothing other than Macedonians and they were also speak the Macedonian language. No, you have it the wrong way around, it is 'greece' who renamed everything in occupied Macedonia ('northern greece') so as to make it sound as though it is 'greek'. Examples are the town of Voden was renamed to edessa, Lerin was renamed florina, Negush was renamed naoussa, Kostur was renamed kastoria, and the list goes on and on. If you do some research you will find that back in the 1920's the athenian government created a law so that they would be able to do this. Why is that??? My confused friend, there is evidence that the name Bitola has been used since at least the 8th century. The reason that you racists call it manastir is most probably because you followed in the footsteps of your ottoman overlords. It is easy to see that there is a huge turkish influence in your pseudo nation. All you have to do is scratch the surface. What actions are we guilty of? The only action we are guilty of is that we are Macedonians.

Every athenian always tries to play down their corrupt nation's scandals. I will repeat my question - If Macedonia was 'greek' why the need to convince the people??? Shouldn't the people already know??? Why would you be paying journalists in garbage bags full of money??????? Do you see how flawed your argument is? If you don't, then I am wasting my time typing these responses. Your stupidity is getting the better of you and you are not smart enough to defend yourself from such silly comments.

Sorry michelle, there is no one to pay to convince us that we are Macedonians. We know who we are and we know our history. We are born in Macedonia, with Macedonian language, culture, customs. No amount of money can buy or sell that. I challenge you to find any athenian type scandals where we are bribing journalists to push our position. Good luck.

It seems to me that you are a confused citizen of your country. You are not entirely aware of your family history and how you came to be 'greek'. I cannot force you to research your own history, as you may not like some of the answers you find, but I encourage you to do your own personal research.

Pozdrav,
Your Macedonian friend

Okay Ladies and Gentlemen, in the twenty first century we should not be telling other nations to change their name and identy. If it is true and Greece has paid journalists millions the truth comes out and is backed up, then the world better make it up to Macedonia. The old boys club (EU & Nato) will eventually dissappear, poorer nations don't need to be part of just to have their resources used up by richer EU nations.

Not Greek or Macedonian

Listen Michelos. There was no Greece in Aegean Macedonia prior to 1913. So get that one thing straight.

Greeks have occupied half of Macedonia proper in the past 100 years.

There is historically no record of greeks telling people in ROM to pick a different name.


Macedonians have been fighting for independence around the same time as all other states in the Balkans were gaining their independence.

People identify themselves as Macedonians not other. We have decendants alive today with that consiousnous. That is enough. Its call self determination.

Don't forget your existance as a greek today is a decision made by the great power 180 years ago.

your confusing ethic greeks in ancient times and the coin language used in trade, commerse and administration.

Greek text can be found in Sicily, Thrace, Persia and Macedonia. IT DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE GREEK !!!!

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