Unacceptable!

We agree.

So you greeks admit "finally!" that we are macedonians. Hello there you south macedonians.

And all this time you said we didn't exist?????? But we were always there - up in the north.


These negotiations are a waste of time. Numbnuts is only in it so he gets his own car park space with his name at the UN.


True Macedonian

The Birth of a Clone State
THE NATIONAL HERALD, OCTOBER 11, 2008

Part II
The term clone is derived from κλών (klon), the Greek word for twig or branch, referring to the process whereby a new plant can be created from a twig.

According to Herodotus’ The Histories, during the 8th century B.C. the Argeads (Αργεάδαι) migrated north from the Greek city of Argos in Peloponnesus to the region we now know as Macedonia. In addition, Thucydides in the History of the Peloponnesian War concurs that Perdiccas I was the first monarch of the Argead dynasty, better known as the ancient kingdom of Macedonia.

The name Macedonia (Μακεδονία) is rooted in Homeric Greek. A related form of the word first appears in the Odyssey, VII 106: ‘οιά τε φύλλα μακεδνης αιγείροιο’ whereas ‘μακεδνης’ in the form of an adjective means very high or tall, in this context referring to the size in height of a poplar tree. The first Macedonians spoke a proto-Hellenic dialect similar to that of Homer. They eventually adopted the Attic Greek dialect as did the other Greek city-states and finally the Koine Greek dialect during the Hellenistic period.

It is not the primary objective of this writer to argue whether the ancient Macedonians were a Greek tribe or not. Any serious historian will validate their Hellenic origin with scores of references as well as Greek inscriptions on countless ancient artifacts unearthed from all over the region. I would like to note, however, one important date in ancient history. In 168 B.C. the last Macedonian king, Perseus, surrendered to the Romans after his decisive defeat at the Battle of Pydna and thus Macedonia came under Roman rule.

For over 2000 years thereafter, there has not been even one documented reference claiming an ethnic Macedonian identity. During 2046 years of recorded history, i.e. from 168 B.C. up until 1878 A.D., there is no evidence of the existence of a Macedonian ethnic consciousness. There is no evidence of the existence of a Macedonian language. There is no evidence of the existence of a Macedonian alphabet. There is no evidence of the existence of a Macedonian Church. These indisputable facts raise a crucial question to FYROM’s fabricators of history. But first, let’s go over two significant events which transpired in the Balkan peninsula, one in 1870 and the other in 1878.

In the 19th century the entire region of Macedonia was still under Ottoman occupation. Numerous demographic studies had been conducted in the vilayets of Monastir and Thessaloniki as late as the 19th century by both Ottoman authorities and European institutions, covering the entire Macedonian region and beyond. Not even one of these ethnic surveys references the existence of a Macedonian ethnicity.

Through the Firman (decree) of 1870, Sultan Abdulaziz allowed the Bulgarian Exarchate to separate from the ecclesiastical authority of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople. From a Turkish point of view, the decree was designed to divide the Christian populations of the decaying Ottoman Empire and define ethnicity in the Balkans by church affiliation. From a much more well-conceived Bulgarian perspective, the new autocephalous status of the Church would encourage Bulgarian nationalism. But there was another method to the madness. Russian influence had also encouraged the Bulgarian schism. Count Nikolai Pavlovich Ignatiev, Russian ambassador to the Ottoman Sublime Porte, upon orders from Tsar Alexander II was promoting a Pan-Slavic movement in the Balkans. This irredentist plan was heavily concentrated in and around the Macedonian region encompassing all the Slav elements with protagonists the Bulgarians and to a lesser extent the Serbs.

The Russo-Turkish War of 1877-1878 ended with the Treaty of San Stefano signed on March 3, 1878. Russian forces had halted their advance at San Stefano (now Yesilkoy), a village on the Sea of Marmara seven miles west of Constantinople. The Pan-Slavist Ignatiev was a signatory of the Treaty. The Treaty of San Stefano forced Turkey to cede most of the region of Macedonia to Bulgaria and created a ‘Greater Bulgaria,’ a Bulgaria spanning from the Romanian border to the north all the way to the foothills of Mt. Olympus to the south, including the port city of Kavala to the east. This allowed Russia to have a Slav satellite in the Balkans where her influence could extend down to the Aegean Sea.

The European Great Powers, fearing this increased Russian influence in southeastern Europe and a possible threat to the trade congested Bosporus and Dardanelles Straits, objected to the terms of the Treaty. Four months following San Stefano, after long negotiations in Berlin mediated by Chancellor Otto von Bismarck of Germany and de facto mediator Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli of Great Britain, the Treaty of Berlin revised the terms, giving the Macedonian region back to the Ottomans and allowing for a smaller Bulgaria. One significant side note here: Shortly before Berlin, a secret agreement to be disclosed later as the Cyprus Convention was reached between the British and Ottomans whereby control of Cyprus was granted to Great Britain in exchange for their support of the Ottomans in Berlin.

In the years immediately following the Treaty of Berlin an ideological concept was developed in the context of Bulgarian initiatives to regain the region of Macedonia. The Serbs, headed by politician Stojan Novakovic, who also coveted Macedonian real estate with views of the Aegean Archipelago, employed the same ideology as a means to counteract the Bulgarian influence in Macedonia, thereby promoting Serbian interests in the region. Alas, the conception of Macedonism, an ideology within the irredentist framework of Pan-Slavism.

Macedonism is structured on aggressive Slavic fundamentalism with irredentist political views based upon the notion of unbroken racial continuity between the self-proclaimed ethnic Macedonians of today and the ancient Macedonians.

Which leads to my question to FYROM’s fabricators of history: During 2046 years of recorded history, i.e. from 168 B.C. up until 1878 A.D., there is no documented evidence of the existence of a Macedonian ethnic identity. You base your argument on illusions of ancient Macedonian grandeur in your bloodlines. Can you therefore justify your prolonged 2,000-plus years state of hibernation whereby not one single document exists referencing a Macedonian ethnic consciousness?

Perhaps these self-proclaimed ethnic Macedonians living in FYROM and the Diaspora, along with FYROM’s current political leadership and their lobbyists in Washington, should consult FYROM’s previous leaders and diplomats who realize that usurpation of history is a tactic destined to fail:

“We are Slavs, who came to the region in the sixth century. We are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians.”
-Kiro Gligorov, first President of FYROM, 1992,

“We are not related to the northern Greeks who produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are a Slav people and our language is closely related to Bulgarian. There is some confusion about the identity of the people of our country.”
-Gyordan Veselinov, FYROM's Ambassador to Canada, 1999,

and the crème de la crème of testimonials:

“The idea that Alexander the Great belongs to us was at the mind of some outsider groups only. These groups were insignificant in the first years of our independence. But the big problem is that the old Balkan nations have been learned to legitimate themselves through their history. In the Balkans to be recognized as a nation you need to have history of 2,000 to 3,000 years old. Since you (Greece) forced us to invent a history, we did invent it.”
-Denko Maleski, Foreign Minister of FYROM from 1991 to 1993.

In my next segment I will dissect the 19th century Bulgarian terrorist organization VMRO, inspiration to FYROM’s ruling political party VMRO-DPMNE headed by Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski.

gialtouridski you can blue in your face and write novels and copy and paste what ever , the fact is that we are still MACEDONIAN

Gialtouridis, read a book by David Holden "Greece without Columns" and learn about the modern pseudo Hellines. You might learn more about yourself that you didn't know.

The construction of the modern greek state.

He studied you modern greeks for 10 years but couldn't find any link to the ancient hellens!

Definition of a Hellen is not a Greek or Macedoinan but a person in limbo.


True Macedonian

Where were these absurd athenian claims before Macedonia's independence? Non existant! The original athenian argument was that Macedonians don't exist, now all of a sudden you athenians are Macedonians? Make up your mind! It is impossible for Christian turks who were transplanted into Macedonia from 1913 to be Macedonian. Inform your athenian butt buddies that 'slav' is a linguistic group, not an ethnicity. Our Macedonian language belongs to the slavic group of languages, but our ethnicity is, and will always be Macedonian. So back to the christian turk think tank for you мајмун! Macedonia can only be Macedonian, and no one can change that.

From above:

"According to Herodotus’ The Histories, during the 8th century B.C. the Argeads (Αργεάδαι) migrated north from the Greek city of Argos in Peloponnesus to the region we now know as Macedonia. In addition, Thucydides in the History of the Peloponnesian War concurs that Perdiccas I was the first monarch of the Argead dynasty, better known as the ancient kingdom of Macedonia."

It is so sad how you like to re-invent history. You may fool yourselves, but don't think for one second that you are fooling others.

My next article in 2 weeks will be about the VMRO. You know, the original one with Bulgarians. I bet you can't wait to read it. But I can't wait until my commentary on the Greek minority in FYROM comes out. It'll blow your minds!

And don't forget the title of my series: "The Birth of a Clone State"

You clones!

Haha 'clones'! Very funny. It's always an ancient history quote that gets pasted by these athenians, as if they were present back in 800 BC! Try posting something from modern history as well мајмун. The athenians cannot admit that there was no so called greek nation before 1831. You athenians are a mixture of vlachs, arvanites, Macedonians, turks who have been doctored to believe you are the same people as the ancients. The 'greek' language had to be learned, and you people had to be educated into speaking the language that you refer to as greek. Wasn't there a possibility of the albanian language being the official language of your doctored nation? Even your flag was given to you by the superpowers. You people are running out of arguments. Oh i've heard of claims by these racists of an athenian minority in Bitola with a population of 200,000. That's funny, there are only 100,000 people living in Bitola my hairy friend. And minorities have rights in the Republic of Macedonia, whether you are Turkish, Serbian, Albanian, or even athenian. Are there rights for minority groups in the land of athenians, or is everyone that lives there a pure athenian? Instead of trying to tell us who we Macedonians are, research your own background and prove that you didn't come from Christian Turkey. Keep posting your lightweight arguments. The world is starting to see how stupid your claims are.

Pozdrav,
Your Macedonian friend

Hay Gialtouridis, perhaps in your third series you can show us some maps of greece when it occupied aegean macedonia between 1920 and 1950, for example.

Show us where Macedonia was named as a province of greece.

Then we can see that greece did not want anything to do with the name Macedonia.

Especially when our nation was doubed Vardarska bonivina. Didn't see the athenians jump in for the macedonian name.

We faught for our freedom and won in ROMacedonia. It is greece that is cloning our name.

So go off rambling somewhere else, your propaganda means shit here.

I am beginning to see a pattern here. We liberate Macedonia when part of Yugoslavia. Then Greece names northern greece macedonia.

Our government requests minority rights of macedonians living in greece. Now greece points to minority rights of greeks in Bitola.

Question:
Can Greece think for itself???? Maybe a topic for your fourth series!!!


True Macedonian

The idea that Alexander the Great belongs to us was at the mind of some outsider groups only. These groups were insignificant in the first years of our independence. But the big problem is that the old Balkan nations have been learned to legitimate themselves through their history. In the Balkans to be recognized as a nation you need to have history of 2,000 to 3,000 years old. Since you (Greece) forced us to invent a history, we did invent it.”
-Denko Maleski, Foreign Minister of FYROM from 1991 to 1993.

Gialtouridis
your shitting razor blade again
crap some more out because i like to see the pain on your face.

I always post as 'gialtouridis' because that's my name. I see a logical educated person posted a quote at 12:43 which was originally posted by me. Good job!

Now, as to 'True Macedonian' (sic) at 07:16:

"We faught for our freedom and won in ROMacedonia."

REALLY? FAUGHT? Are you so living in your own little world?

But Posdrav at 06:18 amuses me the most.
Hmmm. Posdrav. Now that's a true Macedonian name. You know, like Perdiccas, Filippos and Alexandros.

Perhaps I should have titled my series "The Birth of a Clown State"

Is it too late to change it?

Yeah Gialtouridis you are going to have to change the word clone cause that is what greece is doing.

For your fifth series I suggest you search for the true non macedonian ancestry of the turkish settlers of northern greece.

And report back to us. hahahahaha




True Macedonian

Macedonian language? And I guote from my commentary: "The first Macedonians spoke a proto-Hellenic dialect similar to that of Homer. They eventually adopted the Attic Greek dialect as did the other Greek city-states and finally the Koine Greek dialect during the Hellenistic period."

Baby doll, what you speak is not Macedonian. It's a bulgaro-serb-albano-turkic dialect. Talk about bastardization. You retards take the prize when it comes to bastards.

True Macedonian (sic) at 22:26, you are funny. You make me laugh. And I thought Pozdrav was amusing.

Hey gialturd, show us proof of this Macedonian dialect that is mentioned by you athenians. Show us how it differs from other athenian dialects. As a matter of fact, you might want to show the scientific/historic community your findings as well, because they have no evidence of it either. Another lightweight argument. Keep it up gialturd, this is starting to be amusing! The more you post, the dumber you sound. I love it!

No matter what is said and done, he will never be known as Alexander of athens, it will always be Alexander of Macedon. But we Macedonians have more evidence of our Macedonianness than just a king from 2000 years ago.

Lol Macedonian dialect! Back to the christian turk think tank.

Поздрав to my friend gialturd,
From your Macedonian friend.

Mate you greek settlers invented the word barstadization. You are the bastards of Europe.

Macedonia gained its independence in 1991 peacefully. (No offence to the serbs or croats). All greece want is to set up barriers and stuff up MKD.

I love how you refer to quotations from 3000 years ago. As if you were there. Why don't you find quotations stemming from Macedonian soil along that spectrum of time. Lets say in 50 year increments. And then we will then find out how greek you northern greek converts/settlers/assimilators really are.



True Macedonian.

You seem to be an intillectual and resourceful kind of a person, you should have no problem with that.

True Macedonian (sic) at 07:16writes: "We faught for our freedom and won in ROMacedonia."

Then at 05:45 a Slavic ghost writes: "Macedonia gained its independence in 1991 peacefully."

So which is it baby dolls? The same Slavic ghost doesn't like reading history. He/she obviously thinks it pays to be ignorant. Then that same ghost claims to have quotes "stemming from Macedonian soil" going back in time in 50-year increments. So, sweet lips, how many of those 50-year increments can you go back? Can you go back just three? You know, to the middle of the 19th century? And then, just one more for good measure?

Put your money where your mouth is, bitch!

See how you turkeys avoid the subject you yourselves brought up? You ask me for 50-year increments. So when I ask you the same thing, you start the name calling. Nothing else to say. Too stupid to even make up fabrications. Are you gonna punch me over the internet baby? That make so much sense. Telling someone on an internet blog you're gonna punch him out. Do you now see why you're losing every battle?

Gailovski, I see what your problem is, you need to be spoon fed. I guess your mum spoon feeds you your daily yuros for breakfast.

The first war we faught I am referring to the anti-facist movement on 11th Oct 1941.

The second was breaking away from Yugoslavia in 1991, which i'll repeat was a peaceful one.

And for the record, I asked you to explain (first) to us all in 50 year increments how "Greek", northern greek inhabitants of today are spanning over the past 3000 years.

Judging by your answer you got fuck all for me. Nothing new gailovski! Nothing new!

My cousin has our family tree dating back to 1750. All Macedonian as the day is long. Sorry not possible to go back further.

I guess your family tree dates back to Alexander the Great's next door neighbour! hahahahahaha.




True Macedonian

Macedonia will always be Macedonian. Christian turkish settlers learn your own history, we'll take care of our Macedonian history.

Поздрав до сите! Македонско име нема да загине!

Greetings to all Macedonians! The Macedonian name will never die!

No because I challenge you to show me how greek all the inhabitants of northern greece really are from present day right through to antiquity.

Your very claim that your ethnically homogenous and derived from the ancient hellens is garbage.

Don't spread me this bullshit quotes from 800 BC!

So go at kiss the ass of ever German and British citizen because if it wasn't for them you would be speaking Albanian by now.

See, that's your problem. You don't have a history, you are an invention, you steal someone else's history, you steal someone else's identity and what do you do? You accuse others of your own crimes.

You refuse to accept history. That does not mean the rest of the world does the same. You and a few others have isolated yourselves within your own little world. That's not my problem. Just don't get in my way. I will crush you.

Gialtouridis Have you been eating lots of Nationalism shit from your newly created Greece. You appear to be so brainwashed you don't listen to other nations in the world. Maybe you should go back to Turkey , Albania. England, etc...
you might find some connection .

Gialtouridis- Get out of our way or we will CRUSH you like wheat...

Gialtouridis- Get out of our way or we will CRUSH you like wheat...

Anonymous ghosts. Turn the cassette over. It's the same shit over and over again. Are you running out of arguments?

The strand in his[Alexander] personality which needs to be emphasised in his religious faith. Since childhood he had worshipped Heracles Patrous, the son of Zeus and a mortal woman and through his mother he was descended from Achilles, son of the goddess Thetis and a mortal Peleus. In his mother’s veins there was also the blood of a son and a daughter of Priam, king of Troy. To Alexander, Heracles and Achilles were not fantasies of poetic imagination but real people, who expected their descendants to excel as warriors and as benefactors of mankind.
“The Genius of Alexander the Great” By Nicholas G Hammond, page 7