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GREEK ENVOY REBUFFS MACEDONIA COMPLAINTS



National.

The abuse of Macedonian truckers in Greece are individual incidents which do not reflect Athens’ policy, Greece’s envoy to Skopje claims.

The cases “should be solved discreetly,” Greek ambassador Alexandra Papadopoulou told Macedonian President Branko Crvenkovski at the meeting of European Ambassadors in Skopje on Tuesday.

She said Greek police are already investigating the cases but pointed out that the probes would have been more efficient if the truckers had reported the incidents while still in Greece.

Last week Macedonian police received a series of reports from returning truck drivers from Greece that they were allegedly stopped by unknown groups on Greek highways and under the threat of violence were forced to remove any vehicle markings with the letters ‘MK’ while being filmed and verbally abused.

On Monday Skopje officially protested to Athens and Crvenkovski condemned the incident during a meeting with EU ambassadors in Macedonia saying that a solution to the long standing “name” row between the two countries can not be reached by applying power and pressure from Greece.

During the recent two months the row has stalled most of the tourist traffic between the two countries and also affected trade ties. Trains from Macedonia’s national railway company, Macedonian Railroads and the national air carrier Macedonian Airlines have been banned from entering Greek territory.

On the other side, Greek companies operating in Macedonia are seeing an increasing boycott of their products by Macedonia citizens.


MD: Yeah, like if they reported it to the Greek police, they would get some help by them and be taken seriously, don´t make us laugh! We think the police would even smile and join the abusers!

[Makfax]

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Phew! Not Athens policy. What a relief. You forget the politicians don't run Greece the church does. So investigate the Turkish drinking priests.

And what a democracy we must live in when you have a Greek embassador wanting the problem to be solved discretely.

The media in Australia would have no trouble exposing the perpetrators in the news and papers. But no it should be all hush hush in racist Greece.

A MESSAGE TO ALL RESIDENTS OF FYROM :

WE WILL DESTROY YOUR CARS IF YOU WILL HAVE ON THEM MK .COME TO OUR BEAUTYFULL COUNTRY BUT DONT PROVOCATE US.

There we have it, the bastardised Christian Turks rise again to spread more graffiti in a Macedonian site.

Next time the Macedonian truck drivers should "discretely" use the reverse and forward gears properly when confronted by Greek activists.

YOU GREEKS START TO PANIC. YOU MAKE MISTAKE.

ALL YOUR HARD EARNED TIRELESS PROPAGANDA WILL GO TO WASTE.

THE WORLD WILL KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT YOU TYRANTS. SOON.

There are no confirmations of these incidents against Fyrimian cars!

The violence is unacceptable wherever come from....
Anonymous | 07:26 DO NOT represents Greek peeople....


FYROMians attack Greeks in Skopja see here:

On February 2008 nationalists were throwing rocks, gas bottles, etc, against the Greek Embassy in Skopje!

http://macedoniadaily.blogspot.com/2008/02/heavy-protest-in-front-of-greek-embassy.html

http://www.inout.gr/showthread.php?p=157973



On April 2008 nationalists from FYROM attack cars of greek companies in Skopje!

http://greece-salonika.blogspot.com/2008/04/blog-post_9463.html?showComment=1207528200001




On Marts 2008 People from FYROM decorated the Greek flag with Nazi symbol and postit all over Skopje.

http://macedoniadaily.blogspot.com/2008_03_01_archive.html

On Marts 2008 Greek Prime Minister K. Karamanlis portrayal dressed as a Nazi as presented by a magazine published in Skopje.

MD comment is unworthy. They should have reported it to the police. It is unproductive speculating 'what would have happened if they had...'.
If such incidents happen, you report them to the police and they go on the record - and you can claim the insurance.

Let's not forget the 200,000 Greeks who live in FearOM. They are oppressed. They are denied their right to self-determination. They do not wish to be called ethnic Macedonians. They are Macedonian Greeks.

Anonymous #4, can you tell us the truth? We want to know the truth. You can stay anonymous, but please tell us the truth.

The new generations are looking at you greeks and laughing.

The Panmacedonian movement is dwindling away. Most of the facist greeks are 70 or 80 years old.

I give it one more generation and there will be no more greek problem.

The bulgarians already recogize us.

Now Ireland is calling us ROM. Tomorrow Australia will too.

There is no place for greek nationalists in the 21st century. Macedonians are peacful people with a history thousands of years old.

We broke away from Yugoslavia without incident.

You greeks can learn a thing or two from us macedonians.

Hey Anonymous right before me. Can you tell me some of that 'thousands of years' history? Alexander the Great? Right. Now, what about some history from the fall to Rome, say 168 BC, up until the San Stefano Treaty, say 1878 AD. That's 2046 years. That's a lot of time to be missing from the face of the earth. Because there's no documentation proving the existence of a Macedonian consciousness during those 2046 years. And independent verifications only please. No Skopjian propaganda. So, for 2046 years, where were you?

GIALTOURIDIS-THATS A CUT AND PASTE JOB, YOU USED THE SAME COMMENTS ON OTHER BLOGS.I WILL TELL YOU WHERE MACEDONIA HAS BEEN FOR THE LAST 2046 YEARS. IT WAS PART OF THE MACEDONIAN KINGDOM, YOU GREEKS STOLE IT & THEN THE OTTERMAN EMPIRE STOLE IT FROM YOU. UNTIL 1913


BOURBON

Gialtouridis I don't have to do shit. If you can't look at the mountain of evidence of articles published in the past few hundred years that show greeks to be seperate people to macedonians then why should I waste my time.

All I have to do is listen to you greeks then tell you how redicuous you are.

My great grandfather was born in 1845. He has the same last name as me.

We all know he is Macedonian. Tito was not even a twinkle in his parents eyes back then. Where was he to create the macedonian idea then??????

My grandfather changed his name to ...vic to escape from macedonia in 1945. So on his gravestone the common person would think of him as a serb.

Your problem gialtouridis is you mix history with modern day politics rather than treatinig history as a science.

Anonymous #6. It's not cut/paste you fool. I'm just asking the same question on this blog as I have on other blogs. And we don't steal kingdoms, we make them. You are guilty of the same crimes you accuse us of. BTW, Otterman?

Anonymous #7. Just give me a taste of that 'mountain of evidence.' Also, please help me understand. Your grandfather was born in 1845 but he changed his name in 1945? A word of advice: If you're gonna lie, at least look over your lies before you post them. That's the problem I have when I post on skopjian blogs. I come here to debate and all I do is respond to transparent anonymous liars. Don't you people have any shame?

When the albanians of tettovo will be join with kosovo your fyrom state will be destroy.
No american will come to save you all.
http://underinformation.wordpress.com/

Mr gialtouridis please take note. Stop reading some words then greek dancing in the wrong direction. I said my GREAT grandfather was born in 1845 and my GRANDFATHER changed his name in 1945. OK another hint they are two different people.

How can I talk about a long and complicated history when you can't even get the basics right.

Let the historians discuss hisory and challenge the migration theory of 6AD. I refer to you a more current article on Pre-Cyrillic Slavs.

I'm here to tell you and prove to you that at least within the past 150 years you greeks talk shit.

I've already noticed Michelos stumble over his own words.

Is that you Dora Boycottinas??

Anonymous #7, ok my oversight. So, how about some of that mountain of evidence?

Yes, I also wait about this mountain of evidence because stumbling on my very own words.
Please enlightenment us!

Why? Its a waste of time.

Just look up the dictionary meaning of Greece then Macedonian. You will have an explanation. Then look up the dictionary meaning of greek/macedonian and you'll get, What? Nothing!

Therefore you greek/macedonians DON'T EXIST. Maybe demographically but in NO other form.

When Alexander, the son of Phillip, ruler of the Kingdom of Macedonia, invaded and conquered the city states to the south who was the King of Greece?
The answer is simple, there was no king of Greece because there was no Greece! Which means there was no Ancient Greece! Present day Greece is an invention of European rulers of the eighteen hundreds!

SO.....seeing as though you keep refering to 400 BC to prove your existance today based on writings on stones and coins.....well that doesn't prove anything.

Greeks made the first alphabet and there was hellenic influence in Rome and in Asia Minor way before Alexander.

fuck you stuped greek you are a bunch of wankers and if you want to know were i am come on saturday at melbourne in front of the parliment i'll be wearing a tee shirt say fuck the greeks

If I agree with your case (Anonymous | 08:48) then you (“Macedonians”) you exist for less than 20 years. Because simply there was not any nation called “Macedonia”. If we assume that the conquer erases a nation then you stopped exist by the roman empire and reappeared in the nineties. Are you sure that you were not existed before 1990? Why you say that?

About the Greek Macedonians argue.. Is that really an argue? What the same dictionary will say about “SlavMacedonian”?

We keep referring to 400bc because you base your existence on it! But the funny thing is that you claim only the names and you like to forget everything else. You don’t care about ancient Macedonian’s language and writing. You don’t give a shit for their customs, religion and culture! You just like the name “Macedonia” and you try to claim it.

You say that a nation’s language proves nothing! You say that a nation’s writing is not important.

Will you ever tell us what is important for you?

Michelos, I'm not sure what your on about. Maybe you just want to try and convince yourself of something.

Macedonians have fought for soverignty for thousands of years. It is documented with articles dating back hundreds of years.

Northern greece is a greek construct over the past 100 years.
Under population change and forced assimilation.

Tell me I'm wrong. Show me 97% greeks living in Aegean Macedonia in 1820.

You greek/macedonians don't exist. There is no such thing, period.

We have fought for the name for thousands of years. You have fought us not to monopolize the name for 20 years.

So WAKE UP AND SMELL THE ROSES. CAUSE NOTHING ELSE IS HAPPENING.

I will reverse your argument, and since you believe that language does not prove ethnicity, I will tell you that most of the Slav speaking people of Macedonia region were Greeks! Maybe you also are!

I support your case, that northern Greece is a construct of the past 100 years. You mean that your country is not? The rest of the Balkan countries?

Yes, I also know that you were fighting for sovereignty but you got nothing. Does this prove something? Does this give you the right to monopolize the name? Is that an argument?

It seems that you miss the point of our (yours and ours) discussion. You said that Macedonian and Greece is something different and you believe that all Macedonian references thought the time is something related only to you.

We go back from the beginning, proving that the ancient Macedonians were a Greek tribe (because of language, customs etc). So, if the ancient Macedonians were Greeks then you are also Greeks or you are not Macedonians!

You call yourselves Macedonians but you:
take orders from athens
hold up the greek flag
Denie macedonians to speak and learn macedonian in Greece.

WHO THE FUCK IS GREECE TO TELL OTHERS WHAT LANGUAGE TO SPEAK. YOU AS A GREEK CITIZEN OBVIOUSLY STAND FOR THAT. But you may be a closet macedonian just in fear of being portrayed as traitor to Greece.

When did macedonians in antiquity take orders from athens? Hmmm? Philip II never entered athens, he sent his son.

Some ancient macedonians knew how to speak greek (they were of higher socienty) Many didn't.

You think calling yourself macedonian comes with much integrity and honour.

Fuck 2500 years ago. You seem to have no concept of evolotion. You would make aliens greek if the first man in mars was greek.

Alot of your great grandparents fought for macedonia. When it was whole.

You call yourselves macedonians
YOU SHOULD BE A SHAMED OF YOURSELVES.

Personally I am not Macedonian but Cretan (and very proud of it). Which flag should I use? Cretan? Maybe your flag just because I live in Thessaloniki? WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TO TELL US WHICH FLAG REPRESENTS ME?

Philip never entered Athens? What does this prove? Many ancient greeks never visited Athens! You believe that Greece equals Athens? Then what am I? GreekCretan? Cretan only? Something else?

You seem to be deeply confused about the ancient history. Philip and Alexander were great Macedonians but they were also Greeks. Few people were speaking Greek? Can you tell us what the others were talking? Also can you tell us why they were using Greek letters on their currency?
Currency is not used only by higher society you know…

But ok. Let’s fuck what happened before 2500 years, since you don’t want to talk about it.
Yes, our grandparents fought for Macedonia. Can you please prove me that their were fighting for your Macedonia?

Now, take a moment and read your post. I ask questions, you don’t give answers, you just say that we should be shamed because we take orders from Athens and we hold a Greek flag. Nice! Now ask yourself if you convinced anyone with this. (Except already convinced “Macedonian” people!)

So your Creten. Well I am not referring to you people. You have to focus Michelos FOCUS!

Don't mean to be rude but I don't give a shit about the greeks to the south - I'm not concerned about them.

I am talking about the greeks/macedonians/grkomani in northern greece.

But...your response has brought up some key issues that we have to deal with daily from you greeks.

We have to put up with greeks telling us what our flag should be, what language we have to speak and how to act. Not nice is it Michelos when the shoe is on the other foot.

Now you must understand when we say FUCK THE GREEKS!!!!

I questioned you holding up your flag and you got pretty hot under the collar. You probably spilt the turkish coffee you were drinking.

Alexander and Philip were not greek. They were Macedonian. As far as I know if your born in Germany then you are german right?

It's interesting to compare: Your foreign minister Dora says there are 2.5Mil macedonians in northern greece but Alexander and Philip both born in Pella macedonia are greek.

Can you guy please show some consistency in your lies??

I was born in RoMacedonia. 4km from the greek border and (as my father says) 25km from Acient Pella. But damn (acording to you greeks) I missed out from being a pure macedonian by 4km.

I have met many old folk in their 70s and 80s born in northern greece (now in the diaspora). They tell me about being forced to learn greek in night school. They dispise the greeks. They learned macedonian from their mothers, fathers and uncles and aunties at home. What message have you got for them? Where does Tito fit in to that picture from the 1920s and 1930s.

About Alexander and Philip:
The same argument, over and over. If you are born in German, maybe you are German but if you are born in Greek, maybe you are not Greek! If we follow your case then there are no Greeks and they never existed, simply because there were Athenians, Spartans, Cretans and so on. You separate the Greeks in the way it fits you!
We never said that Alexander was not Macedonian. Of course he was. Like Periklis was Athinean. If Alexander was not Greek then maybe Periklis is also not Greek?

About the flag :
There is a major difference in the flag arguments. We, the Greeks, do not demand you to use a specific flag or country name. We just don’t accept the use of Macedonia as country name, because you have only a part of Macedonia. No matter what happened to the past, who is right and who is wrong, today, we have more than half of Macedonia. We just don’t accept you to monopolize the Macedonian name and history.

About our “Dora” :D
When the Greeks talk about Macedonia, you have to understand that, we talk about the Greek part of Macedonia were we consider that Greeks live. When she says that 2.5M Macedonians live in Northen Greece, she talks about Greek Macedonians. How do you believe that she was talking about you? When she wants to refer to your country she always uses the word FYROM.

About you and the 70s 80s people :
I can’t be sure of what happened at that time but because I know what was happening in the Balkans, I can believe that it’s true. If the Turks did this thing to the Greeks then probably the Greeks did the same. So my message to them is that I feel sorry about what happened at that time.
I know the Greek mentality and the way the Greek government (and of course the Greek church!) tries to solve their problems.

4Km from the Greek border? You are almost Greek! (Joke).
Well, listen.. I will reverse your argument...
According to you and to your government, I will ask you how you will call somebody who is born 4km inside our border?

Michelos,

The relatives he's talking about were born after the Balkan Wars. There were no Turks involved. These were people born in the 20's and 30's (if he's not making this up) and they were the communists fighting on the side of the partizans during our civil war. Metaxas was wise to keep an eye on them in the 30's as they were taking orders from the Bulgarian Ivan Mihailov and Bulgaria and later in the 40's from the Croat Tito. This shithead should study his 20th century history more carefully.

Hey gialtouridis, you really have a perverted way of looking at things don't you.

Your about as one eyed as they come.

Your posts remind me of a "zelena tikva"

These people do exist. Sorry to disappoint you. Maybe they weren't born before the balkan wars but they have mothers, fathers, grandfathers etc that were. So they were educated at home in Macedonian and their history.

So which part of the history you want me to fucken learn about. About the Detsa Begaltsi exciled from natzi greece in the 1940's?(28,000 young macedonians)

Metaxas didn't have to keep an eye on them because now they can't even enter greece. Hey?

There was a war in Aegean Macedonia also there was a war in Turkey against the British. So you greek converts would have had to fight against someone.

You cock-sucking bitches. You communist bastards abducted 29,000 Greek children, took them to communist eastern Europe after the Greek army kicked your communist asses out of Greece, raised them brainwashed hating Greece, and now you say that those kids were exiled? Kids were exiled? Don't you have any shame? Don't you bastards have a conscience? How do you sleep at night? You will burn in hell you parasites.

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February 27 2010:
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