Hah, you guys are getting desperate.

Where did he say that? Any source?

To be serious, it's indeed ridiculous how you can clinge to a name as proof of your "identity".

You don't sound pretty sure about that identity, do you?

Heh, found it.
He's actually said that Scopje is negative on the issue and must make consessions.

As for the veto, it isn't obviously pleasant for Greece too, but again he says:

"This political choice is not a choice that can be placed on a balance for the pros and the cons of a veto, because apparently certain values and principles are above assessments for future consequences."


Inform your readers honestly.
Don't feed them your government's propaganda.

"For I (Alexander I) myself am by ancient descent a Greek, and I would not willingly see Hellas change her freedom for slavery." (Herod. IX, 45, 2 [Loeb])

"Tell your king (Xerxes), who sent you, how his Greek viceroy (Alexander I) of Macedonia has received you hospitably." (Herod. V, 20, 4 [Loeb])



"Now, that these descendants of Perdiccas are Greeks, as they themselves say, I myself chance to know." (Herod. V, 22, 1 [Loeb])

Actually, LAOS is no more further to the right than your own governmental party, VMRO, the one that organised the rally in Skopje.

"Cling to a name", indeed, now who is being ridiculous. Greeks want only to erase the name and the macedonian people from exsistance for ever. So as they can gain a full pardon on all atrocities commited in the past 100 years.

I only see that time and time again from the retarded assertions you greeks make, that we are bulgarian, serbian or whatever!

Macedonians want to "cling" to a name that exists well before Alexandar the Great.

And by the way...I am very sure of my identity.

End of story!

If u are so sure about your identity, you schould read some international books or watch some History Channel, about the Macedones. And by the way: Search about the meaning of the name Alexander. It means something.
And you cannot denie that your language is 98% Bulgarian.
Search. Dond just believe your Goverment's Propaganda. Your former president (who has a bulgarian passport now) said it also: "we are Slavs and not related in anyway to the Ancient Macedones"

I have read some international books, you should do the same, books by Eugene Borza for example.
I have seen the history channel, some very well put together about Macedonians being a separate entity to the Greeks and other really bad ones that are one sided Greek position.
I only have to look at a “Greek” website to research about Alexander and even they begin by saying “Whether Alexander the Great was Greek or just loved things Greek is not important” Hence even they never say he is Greek. Reference: www.ahistoryofgreece.com
Bulgarians speak similar to Macedonians or visa versa, who cares!! We’re not the same people. Try telling the Serbs and Croats who too speak a similar language that they are the same.
Our former president is an idiot. There isn’t a Macedonian out there that doesn’t think the same. As it turns out his father or grandfather was Bulgarian, so he moves to Sofia. Good riddens!
So I shouldn’t listen to my government’s policies? Maybe I should listen to the Greek government instead? Nice try! Maybe my parents lied to me when I was 5 living in Macedonia too. I can trace my ancestors to 1850, of which all are Macedonian. So much for a Tito created Macedonia.

I admit that you are in a pathetic position.

Deny what? That ancient Macedonians were Greeks? Do that in an international context and stand with the laugh.

That modern Macedonian issue was emanated from Bulgaria -you actually speak a Bulgarian dialect- ?

That today's FYROM was until 1945 named "Vardar Banovina"?

What you're left with are your own pseudo-historians who have successfully injected to you a "macedonian" identity.

And you now can't live without it.
You're being increasingly ridiculous and you can't even understand it.

We are in a pathetic position because of the pathetic stance taken by the greek government.

How long was Macedonia named Vardar Banovina? In early 1900s by Serbian King? Don't forget we had two world wars around that time. Hardly a rational place and time.

What was it called prior to that? The Ottoman empire didn't change our name for 5 hundred years.

I don't need a historian to inject what I know I am.

It is you that doesn't get it. The Greek/macedonian concept is only a new phenomenon.

At the end of the day, all your worried about is recongizing the macedonian minority in Greece and territorial aspirations we supposed to have.

My only wish is for equality and human rights of macedonians no matter where they are in the world.

I have no territorial aspiratons, and I dare say I speak for many.

If you don't like the name we have, bad luck! Save your propaganda for someone else.

>>>The Greek/macedonian concept is only a new phenomenon.

Heh, that's a good joke to share with your friends.

I see you now speak fairly reasonably, but again inside your own propaganda myth.

If you won't to be called "Macedonians" at all costs what hurt will it be to your "identity" to actually acknowledge what you really are: Slavs.
So that we can differentiate you from Greek Macedonians.

Why not "Slav Macedonia" then?

But, no, you want the monopoly because a state called "Macedonia" is obviously superior to a region inside another.
country with the same name.

And a state called Macedonia can speak on behalf of an obscure "macedonian" minority, just like you did.

I 'd also like to believe what you say about not having any territorial claims against Greece, but that's not what you teach your own children in your own schools.
Is it true or not that your official state version of history speaks of one Macedonia, of which the "aegean part" was enslaved by Greece?
And every history map includes both greek and bulgarian Macedonia inside the same borders?

This is pure nationalistic shit and noone can take that unanswered, and nor would even you if you were in place of Greek Macedonians.

You are complete fools, if you think that nationalism and irredentism will benefit you.
And against a country that has benefited you and has not threatened you whatsoever.
Unlike all of your other neighbors (Albania, Serbia, Bulgaria).

Prior to 1912 there was no such thing as a greek/macedonian. Even today it's only a slang expression.

Our official state version is not of a one macedonia. Just in a historical context.
What is wrong with teaching our kids events that took place over the past 100 years. It explains fully where we are today.

What would you prefer? We pretend it didn't happen and just sweep it under the rug?

If we were Slav Macedonians then we would have changed our name in 8AD and had a national holiday to mark the event.

Yes, Greece is superior economically and politically. However we are nationalists just like every other human being in this world with respect to their own contry.

We will not surcumb to bullying tactics. All your arguments thus far are baseless.

Our identity will not be sold out to greek propaganda.

Greece did not have to change her name to join Nato or the EU. Nor should we.

You have no official province called Macedonia just peripheries.
Hence no confusion with the Republic of Macedonia.

>>>Prior to 1912 there was no such thing as a greek/macedonian. Even today it's only a slang expression.

See what I mean? That's complete bullshit.

Prior to 1912, there were also Greeks living in Macedonia, whether you like it or not, as there were Bulgarian and Serbs.
Now part of the Bulgarians (Exarchists) chose not to identify as such but simply as "Macedonians". That's where you come from.

There is no such thing as an ethnic "macedonian" identity, since Macedonia was populated by many ethnicities,
If you want to use it to identify yourselves as such you have to use a definition and that is
"slav macedonian".

You can't speak on behalf of Macedonia, historically (ancient Macedonia was greek), nor geographically (Greek Macedonia is the actual Macedonia).

And you find nothing bad teaching your children lies and being nationalistic?
That shows how retarded you are.

You're the bullies trying to steal a name you don't even understand.
This isn't going to happen and the sooner you realise this the better for you.

At least we are democratic enough to say that greeks serbs etc populated macedonia. Your government says 97% of the population in greece are pure greeks? What a load of crap!!

If greece isn't big enough to admit to a diverse ethnic and cultural mix in your own contry then don't you start to dictate our ethnic mix.

Remember the population exchanges with Turkey and Bulgaria in the 1920's. Pure greeks, no worries anything you say.

Banning of the macedonian language to be spoken or taught in schools, burning down of churches, renaming streets, towns etc.

Seems extreme. What have you got to hide?

Ah yes, forced assimilation, that's it.

Bottom line, our ethnicity is a no brainer. Your just worried about the name that appears on the land title. So save your propaganda to the unassuming bystander who will smile and nod at you but quite frankly doesn't give a shit about greece or macedonia.

Heh, not even a hint to contradict what I've said thus far...
Run short of nationalist propaganda material?
Pick up a pseudo-history schoolbook of yours.

Now you are pissed that Greece is more ethnically homogeneous than you are?
Well, that's your problem and you have to live with it.

And what of that other ridiculous stuff about "pure Greeks"?
Greeks from Asia Minor and Bulgaria and Vardar Banovina and Albania aren't "Greek enough" for you?
But you are just suuure about who is a "pure macedonian" ?
Save also that crap for your propaganda victims.

Burning down of churches, murders and persecution?
I see...talking about VMRO and then SNOF gangs terrorizing the Greek population in the whole of Macedonia.
To show them who the "pure macedonian" was...
Speaking of bullies...

Forced assimilation?
You are the product of that under Tito's indoctrination, and now you denounce it?
Well, go one step further and admit what Ljubčo Georgievski had to say about your national identity.
Your former prime minister, you know, and a right-winger...he MUST know better than your jittering about it...

The bystander who knows a thing about ancient or modern history is already laughing at you.
What you choose to call yourselves is your problem; say you're Eskimos, if you like.

The thing you can't and won't be able to do is foster your nationalism, which you're proud of, on Greece's disadvantage.
Because, when Greeks speak of Macedonia and Macedonians they speak of Greeks, as they always were.
Not of former Bulgarians who thought they can substitute for the self-respect they lack by falsifying history and expansionist dreaming.

And actually that's the problem with you:
You do give a shit, whenever anyone tries to wake you up from your nationalist propaganda.
Your bubble-talking is a direct proof of that.

I am of Italian decent living in Australia. AS far as everything goes, it is blateltly obvious that Macedonians exist. To say that they dont, is like saying there is no such thing as the sun or the moon. Its obvious, and to say anything otherwise is ridiculous. Should we beleve the Turks when they say "Greeks are just Western Turks, with a different language" Grow up Greece, the world is not fooled, or indeed as stupid, unlike your incredible argument!!!