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OBAMA: MACEDONIA TO STOP BREACHING INTERIM AGREEMENT



National.

Macedonia to stop breaching the Interim Agreement with Greece, to stop all unfriendly activities and to cooperate with Greece to find mutually acceptable solution to the dispute.

The above statement was taken from Greek Daily "Vima" in an interview U.S. Presidential Candidate Barack Husein Obama gave to 'Voice of America', Greek language service.

His statement had made Athens very happy, as "Vima" points out. In its interview Obama has emphasized the good relations between Greece and the U.S, which, at the moment had cooled off because of the Bush Administration.

Obama had issued support on the Cyprus issue as well as called on Turkey to return properties belonging to the Greek Church.

Obama is closely tied to and funded by the Greek Lobby in the U.S.


MD: It's obvious it would be very bad for Macedonia if Obama manages to win the elections. He supports the Greeks and is fully supported by them and their lobby in the US. However, several people are stating that the words of Obama are totaly taken out of its context and somehow made up by the Greek journalist, Mr.Bitsis, who interviewed Obama

[Mina]

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I hope all the Macedonian people in the United States reads this article.It is outrageous.Please if you are Macedonian living in the US ,do not vote for this man.

Looks really bad for MK. No american friends with Obama and EU will stop to to get new members as well after the irish desaster.

It’s so funny to believe that one candidate will support you more than the other. We also felled in this trap numerous times.

US will continue their policy no matter who is sitting on the president’s chair.
This policy is not Greek friendly, not “Macedonian” friendly. It’s only US friendly.

One upon a time, there were 2 mice sharing their forest, Slavko and Stavros. Uncle Sam placed 2 bits of cheese on 2 mice-traps just outside the forest. Stavros wanted to leave his forest and walked out. He saw the cheese and thought mmmm, life is easier here; he went to eat it and SLAP! was caught. Then Slavko thought he wanted to go out. He saw Stavros in the trap, he saw the other bit of cheese and thought: 'Oh, I am so lucky Stavros ate the bad piece of cheese!' So he went for the other piece and... SLAP!
Moral: There are many traps in this world.

Obama being a black living in America would understand opression and minority rights issues.

He should know better than not to uphold the current stance by USA on Macedonia.

Anonymous the Great

Maybe he knows more than you think (and desire).

i will vote for obama then. thnx for this post. hope he will indeed support the greeks

15.10
Good story, Obama better open up his eyes and ears. Not everyone wants wars in the Balkins or in Turkey and Greece. If he is voted in, a huge can of worms will be opened and spread eveywhere. I hate to think what will happen in our world today, very scarry.....


Mrs Anonymous

Oh Gee Michelos what could Obama know what I don't? Me being a Macedonian born and bread. And Obama being a black American.

maybe there is a greek pissing in his ear. Do you think?

Pouring lots of money into his campaign in order to assert greek narrow minded goals.

There is a serious question of accuracy here. I suggest reading the Obama interview itself at the VOA website--
http://www.hri.org/cgi-bin/brief?/news/usa/voa/2007/07-05-20.voa.html
-- and downloading the tape. The crucial passage comes at about 3:40. Although the Athenian newspaper Vima, and subsequently other Balkan networks, reported Obama as _saying_ that the "Republic of Macedonia should stop propaganda that violates the interim accord between Athens and Skopje with hostile action and collaborate with Greece to achieve the common goal of finding a mutually acceptable name for the Republic,”" these words in fact come from the interviewer, Mr. Bistis, without any comment from Obama.

The words _do_ accurately state what the resolution says, and Obama was a co-signer. These Senate resolutions are often written just to placate constituents (Chicago, Obama's city, has many Greek-Americans), and have no effect on policy. Still, the section is entirely spoken by Mr. Bistis. It does sound as if To Vima was putting words into Obama's mouth.

I am not sure that VOA represented the case as transparently as it might have. Vima certainly did not.

Dan Tompkins

Dan, welcome to this forum. Thankyou for pointing out the above.

There are too many greek activists twisting stories such as this in the media.

If you don't know already they are good at creating myths.

Slav people from FYroM try το steal the Greek name Makedonia to naming theres new born country, VARDARSKA.
Then they take the Greek symbol, the star of Vergina, which are recognized by the accord as greek cultural haritage, and used to theres flag, and then offering to change it back as a concession to Greece!!!
They renaming the country's airport "Petrovec" to 'Alexander the Great'. Skopje main square renamed to Pella, the capital of the ancient kingdom of Macedon.
They print maps which include half Greece inside theres territory!! Print school books with maps of a mythical unified Macedonia with clear inferences that the "Aegean Macedonia" section is now "occupied". FYroM current prime minister paying tribute to a monument showing maps of Macedonia INCLUDING Greek Macedonia!!!
Similar maps published in military books!!!
That what is really behind the Fyromian agenda on their name claim!!!
This is not just about a name, this is about high jacking Greek history from Slavs.....

@03:32
Sure, everything is related to money. But it seems that you believe that all this is related to others and not to you!
When they support you, they bring justice and they are good people!
When they don’t, they take money from the racists Greeks!


Get a life!


About the post of Dan..

I was sure that there was a hole in this scenario! Like I said in my first post here, their policy is not Greek, neither “Macedonian”. It’s only Macedonian.

And we (you and us) are the fools who think that we ran the white house!

Dan typed your voa web site, kept getng wrong file name????????????????????????????? Would have been good o look a.

Michelos??????????????????????????????????????????????/What are you saying????? You said on your first post here "This poicy is not Greek
friendly, not"Macedonian" friendly. It's only US friendly.
Now you twist your statements as always.And say their policy is only Macedonian. What the fuck are you on????????????????????????????????????????/

Oups! Sorry!

I wanted to say it’s only American! It was a mistake. But I am sure you were able to understand the meaning, don’t you?

ok Michelos this time you are off the hook....................................

@Hellenas
You've go no idea have you. Who is stealing what?

They found the Sun of Vergina in 1977 under greek occupation. What was the name of the kingdom when that symbol was used. The Sun of Vergina has also been found on other objects within ROMacedonia also.

When greece adopted its new flag and symbols in 1820 why didn't she opt for the sun?????????????????

Can we make a swap for the name of our airport to all the people, places and things that greeks changed in the past 100 years????????????????????????????

I will be the first to admit and so will you that there is no chance that Macedonians from the Republic will take over the greek occupied land. However at every greek post all I see is this sell inflicted oppression paranoia about land. So you just keep legitimising your hatred of Macedonians.

So you tell me who should get a life.

Your non recognition of macedonians without greek background matters not to me and to many other maceodinans I know.

As long as everybody else does. You greeks can go and jump as far as I am concerned.

You like to forget that the “Sun of Vergina” has used by the Greeks long before the kingdom of Macedonia and far away of it. So, even if Macedonians were not Greeks, that symbol is definitely Greek because it’s related to the Ancient Greek religion.

You can visit this if you want to know better : Sun of Vergina - A Greek symbol

Hopefully, the flag issue is clear now!

You are Slavs
You have slavic Culture
You have slavic herous - Goce Delchev, Kriste Misirkov etc
You speak slavic - Servobulgarian
You have slavic names

You country real name is VARDARSKA and you renamed to "Macedonia" to high jacking Hellenic history.

"Fyromian" Hero Kriste Misirkov said:"When something does not exist you can create it If circumstances require it".

We Hellines all over the world and milions of people (More then 100 Nations do not recognised your country!!) which know the TRUTH, never recognise Your country with that name.

Every day more and more people around the world find out the truth.

Whole the world recognised you country very soon with your new NAME.Totaly distinguish from our REAL MAKEDONIA.

So back off and find your own identity!!
Create one if you don't want the one you had years ago with united Yugoslavia, but don't steel from Hellines!!

MINA is not a reliable source of information.
Its administrator, M.Abramoff, wrote a news item where he invented slanderous quotes from the 'World Macedonian Congress'.
Abramoff quoted the WMC as stating that: "[...] Sarkozy's (book) 'Greek roots' is an AntiMacedonian, unfriendly and racist act, contradictory to the Final Helsinki document". That "Sarkozy is an embarassment to all Jews worldwide, because of his solidarity for Greek Genocide of Jews [...] as well as the Greek forced extradition of 46,000 Jews in the Second World War out of Aegean Macedonia to the death camps in Poland and Germany". The Abramoff article concluded by quoting the WMC as stating that, "the French President is showing solidarity with Athens for their Genocide, a Genocide active from the Greek occupation of Aegean Macedonia in the Balkan Wars".
There is no evidence suggesting that the WMC wrote anything so stupid, or ignorant or slanderous.
The Mina administrator and his site should be held accountable for this outrageous lie and the site removed from its .eu signature.
academic100@hotmail.co.uk

So Michelos you can prove to me that greeks from the 9 ancient greek states used the sun before philip or alexandar of Macedonia right?

And Hellenass. Vardarska Banovina was named by the Serbian King Alexander I in 1929 he tried to remove any names with heritage and history and tried to create one state, of course with Serbia at the forefront. Well he was assassinated (5 years later) in 1934 by a Macedonian while visiting france. Shows how popular his choice was!!!!!!!!!!!!

But now the greek puppetts get on some ego trip band wagon and call us Vardarska. Wow! you sound really intellegent. That sound really logicall to me.

So nine greek states break from the ottomon yoke and name a country.............greece.

But a macedonian country break from the ottomon yoke and get to call themselves.........vardarska.
Thats pretty retarted!

And I beg to differ!!! More and more outsiders are learning that we are Macedonians rather than the other way around.

And around 120 countries recognize us as macedonians out of 195 un members.

I only have to turn the clock back 100 years and prove you greeks did not dominate northern greece and today northern greece is a product of forced assimilation.

There are 100s of thousands of macedonians in the diaspora from northern greece that dispize what the greek governement is doing.
what message would you like to send to them???

Well.. if the Spartans were using on Amphoreus of 6th BC then, definitely, it’s not a Macedonian only symbol but a Greek one. And of course, it make’s perfectly sense because Macedonians, Spartans, Athenians and the rest of the ancient Greeks were sharing the same traditions.

About the rest…
It’s very funny to hear you claiming inheritance with the ancient Macedonians (which they were writing, speaking and thinking Greek and having Greek names for themselves and for their land) and also claiming that we, the Greeks, destroyed the Macedonian inheritance, by eliminating the use of (your) Macedonian language and names!

So, if we follow the line of the history, Greek names and language appeared much earlier than you and your language. So, we can claim that we restored the Greek use of the area.

And.. by the way…
There was never a Macedonian country that break from the Ottoman empire. As far as I know, back in 1912, we liberated Thessaloniki from the Turks. Turks were there for 482 years. So, we didn’t occupied any “Macedonian” state.

Of course, people living in that area have the right to call themselves Macedonians. A Jew living in Thessaloniki that his father and his grandfather were also living there has all the rights to feel Macedonian, to Thessalonikian and to feel Greek.

“The possible creation of a Macedonian free state within Greece to amalgamate with Marshal Tito’s Federated Macedonia State, with is capital in Skopje…would fulfill the Slavic objectives of re-uniting the…province of Macedonia under Slavic rule, giving access of the sea to Bulgaria and Yugoslavia.”

C. L. Sulzberger, THE NEW YORK TIMES - July 26, 1946

“According to most reliable information, a secret meeting was held yesterday at Comi in southern bulgaria…to draw up plans for a general rising in Greek Macedonia, with the ultimate object of incorporating that region with Salonica in an automonous Macedonia under Yugoslav hegemony.”

THE NEW YORK TIMES - August 19, 1946

U.S STATE DEPARTMENT
Foreign Relations Vol.VIII
Washington D.C.

Circular Airgram
(868.014/26 Dec. 1944)

The Secretary of State to Certain Diplomatic and Consular Officers*

The following is for your information and general guidance, but not for any positive action at this time.

The Department has noted with considerable apprehension increasing propaganda rumors and semi-official statements in favor of an autonomous Macedonia ,emanating principally from Bulgaria, but also from Yugoslav Partisan and other sources ,with the implication that Greek territory would be included in the projected state. ?This Government considers talk of Macedonian ?nation?, Macedonian ?Fatherland?, or Macedonian ?national consciousness ?to be unjustified demagoguery representing no ethnic nor political reality and sees in its present revival a possible cloak for aggressive intentions against Greece.?

The approved policy of this Government is to oppose any revival of the Macedonian issue as related to Greece. The Greek section of Macedonia is largely inhabited by Greeks and the Greek people are almost unanimously opposed to the creation of a Macedonian state. Allegations of serious Greek participation in any such agitation can be assumed to be false. This Government would regard as responsible any Government or group of Governments tolerating or encouraging menacing or aggressive acts of ?Macedonian Forces? against Greece.

The department would appreciate any information pertinent to this subject which may come to your attention.

STETTINIUS

Plenty of non greek names existed in antiquity in Macedonia Michelos. Telling you them all would be just a cut and paste job.
So get off the notion that all ancient macedonians spoke greek and had greek names. Cause your wrong!

Macedonians were considered barbarians (non greek). This is well documented.

Look at the rosetta stone where in 200 bc they wrote in 3 languages. Egyptian, Greek and domatic.

So there are no macedonians in Greece just bulgarians. That means Alexander the Great could have been bulgarian??? But you hand picked him to be 100% Greek. How convenient for you.

Hellenass. There was a peaceful protest in USA 1919 campaigning for an independent Macedonia. Did Tito at the age of 27 pay for a ticket to America from his earnings as a waiter in a cafana to rally the people together and organise slogans and a march???????????????

As a fellow Macedonian I would support Tito's efforts to Annex Aegean Macedonia with Yugoslavia than with greece. As it was only under greek official administration for 25 years at the time.

There are even more documents that reference Macedonians as Greeks.

You want to have an idea what I am talking about? Check this : Ancient Greeks references to Macedonians as Greeks

So, what we say cannot be a lie. Of course there were people, in the ancient Greece, that were hating Macedonians. That’s a fact. Also from time to time there were people hating other Greeks and also fought each other. That’s also a fact. So, the fairytale that Macedonians fought the Greeks so, they were not Greeks is no more!

Now about the names you mention.
You can check the following list of names : 100 Most Famous Ancient Macedonian Names

In this list you will find many Macedonian names and… yes.. at last.. you will understand their meaning (because Ancient Greeks liked their names to have some meaning!)

Non-Greek names found in several areas of ancient Greece. But 95% of them was Greek!

If you want learn more about that, check this link, and scroll down to the fact No 6.


So, Alexander was not Bulgarian, definitely he was not talking any Slavic language and definitely he was not talking your language. How can you say that your language is Macedonian????

WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SAY HE WAS GREEK?
WHY DID MEGAS? ALEXANDROS SAY HIS BLOOD IS GREEK?
WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SAY HE SPOKE ONLY GREEK?
WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SAY HIS VISIONS WERE GREEK?
WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SAY WE GREEKS SHOULD NOT BE SLAVES TO BARBARIANS?
WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SAY HIS FATHER WAS GREEK?
WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS FIGHT FOR THE GLORY of GREECE?

WHY DID MEGAS? ALEXANDROS TAKE REVENGE FOR PERSIAN INVASION IN HIS MOTHERLAND GREECE?
WHY WAS MEGAS ALEXANDROS PROUD OF HIS MOTHERLAND GREECE?
WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS BUILD GREEK CITIES ONLY?
WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SPREAD GREEK LANGUAGE ONLY?
WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SPREAD GREEK CULTURE ONLY?
WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SPREAD GREEK JUSTICE ONLY?
WHY WAS HE PROUD FOR his GREEK ANCESTORS?

"For I Alexander myself am by ancient descent a Greek, and I would not willingly see Hellas change her freedom for slavery." (Herodotus. IX, 45, 2 [Loeb])

The slavs transended into Macedonia, Illiria, Thrace and Greece. You can't use the migration theory that we are slavs. Sorry!

Macedonians have always existed culturally, ethnically and linguistically seperate to the greeks.

The ancient Macedonians used their own vernacular, Macedonian language. There are number of testimonials from the ancient historians in support of this fact. For instance, the Greek historian Plutarch (I AD), describing a quarrel between Alexander The Great and one of his friends wrote that Alexander "jumped on his feet and in Macedonian called on his shield-bearers").

In his biography of Marc Anthony, Plutarch mentioned that Macedonian was the mother tongue of the Egyptian queen Cleopatra VII and of her ancestors from the Macedonian dynasty Ptolemais.

The Latin historian Quintus Curtius Rufus (I AD) also testified that the ancient Macedonians spoke a separate, Macedonian language. He described the trial of the Macedonian Philotas for contriving a plot to murder Alexander The Great. The plot was discovered and Philotas was publicly interrogated by Alexander. Describing this event, Quintus Curtius Rufus clearly stated that the Macedonians spoke separate, Macedonian language13).

An evidence about the distinction of the Macedonian language was found on fragment of a papyrus which was thought to be a part of the lost work "History of the successors" by the ancient Greek historian Arrian. In this papyrus (PSI XII.1284) an episode from the history of ancient Macedonia has been described where the distinction of Macedonian language has been clearly emphasized. It has been described in this text how the secretary of Philip and Alexander of Macedon, Eumenes was: "…sending forth a man called Xennias who was Macedonian in speech…" to negotiate with the Macedonian army of Neoptolemeus. This event took place around 321 BC.14)

That the Macedonian was a distinct vernacular characteristic to the Macedonians confirm the anti-Macedonian speeches given by the great orator from Athens, Demosthenes. In his work "Philippic" Demosthenes gave the following insulting remark about the Macedonian King Philip II of Macedon:

"That man Philip, not only he is not a Greek, but also he does not have anything in common with the Greeks. If only he would have been a barbarian from a decent country - but he is not even that. He is a scabby creature from Macedonia - a land that one can not even bring a slave that is worth something from".

The question why Demosthenes named Philip as a barbarian becomes imminent. Majority of the scientists believe that the term "barbarians" in the ancient period was used to refer mainly to people that spoke language that Greeks could not understand, usually accompanied by a dose of disregard towards the culture of the people speaking that language. It is well known that all the people that did not speak Greek were named "barbarians", whereas the Greeks from the city-states used the word "xenoi" when referring to one-another.

Demosthenes was not alone in naming the Macedonians "barbarians". Ancient Greek historian Isocrates also called the Macedonians "barbarians".

The Greek Trasymachus, in his speech before the Larisians in V BC named the Macedonian king Archelaos "barbarian" in relation to the Greeks Larisians.

However, it stands for a fact that the elites in power in ancient Macedonia at a certain stage of the development of Macedonia took up the Greek literary language and some elements of the Greek culture (religion, onomastics etc). It needs to be emphasized that this does not mean at all that the Macedonians were Hellenes. First thing to be said in relation to this is that the Greek literary language at the time was also used by many other nations that were not Hellenes: Thracians, Jews, Ilyrians, even the Romans, all these people at some stage in the ancient period wrote in old Greek language. Such examples can be witnessed even today: the Irish speak and write in English and are not English; Brazilians speak and write in Portugese and are not Portugese etc.

As far as adopting the Old Greek language by the Macedonian royalty is concerned, it is a fact that this occurred at a certain stage of development of the Macedonian state. Supporting this fact is the non-existence of not even a single inscription in Greek on the territory of Macedonia to be dated from and before V BC, which matches with the period prior to the partial adoption of the Greek culture in Macedonia. The fact that many of the inscriptions in Greek found (from a later date though) contain many grammatical errors, is by itself a proof in support of the truth, that is the Old Greek language was foreign to the Macedonians.


Anonymous the Great

stop answer the questions by lieing...

WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SAY HE WAS GREEK?
WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SAY HIS BLOOD IS GREEK?
WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SAY HE SPOKE ONLY GREEK?
WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SAY HIS VISIONS WERE GREEK?
WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SAY WE GREEKS SHOULD NOT BE SLAVES TO BARBARIANS?
WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SAY HIS FATHER WAS GREEK?
WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS FIGHT FOR THE GLORY of GREECE?

WHY DID MEGAS? ALEXANDROS TAKE REVENGE FOR PERSIAN INVASION IN HIS MOTHERLAND GREECE?
WHY WAS MEGAS ALEXANDROS PROUD OF HIS MOTHERLAND GREECE?
WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS BUILD GREEK CITIES ONLY?
WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SPREAD GREEK LANGUAGE ONLY?
WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SPREAD GREEK CULTURE ONLY?
WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SPREAD GREEK JUSTICE ONLY?
WHY WAS HE PROUD FOR his GREEK ANCESTORS?

listen all you dumbcunts out there.. it dun matter who is elected president- mcain, obama, hell it could even have been a greek, it dun count 4 shit coz the US have a policy and it will continue to follow it, the president is jus a puppet and its in Americas interest 2 have Macedonia in NATO, you think they have been supporting us for nothing? think again.

Excuse me? Why we can’t? What’s that thing that unites the slaves that transcended in the areas you mention? Language maybe? And what kind of language do you use?

So, the ancient Macedonian language was not Greek? But it has to be something, right? Any recorded evidence about it? Because if you want to study about ancient Macedonians you have to know Greek! Never wondered why???

Spelling mistakes is proof of non-Greek origin? Are you serious? If I made spelling mistakes means I am not Greek but.. Macedonian? You are joking I suppose…

But… What language did these “Macedones” speak?
The name itself is Greek in root and in ethnic termination. It probably means ‘highlanders,’ and it is comparable to Greek tribal names such as ‘Orestai’ and ‘Oreitai,’ meaning ‘mountain-men.’ A reputedly earlier variant, ‘Maketai,’ has the same root, which means ‘high,’ as in the Greek adjective ‘makednos’ or the noun ‘mekos.’ The genealogy of eponymous ancestors which Hesiod recorded (p. 3 above) has a bearing on the question of Greek speech. First, Hesiod made Macedon a brother of Magnes; as we know from inscriptions that the Magnetes spoke the Aeolic dialect of the Greek language, we have a predisposition to suppose that the Macedones spoke the Aeolic dialect.

You will find much more information on The Language of ancient Macedonians

About the barbarian you mention...
You will find plenty of information on the article Greek tribes being labeled “Barbarians” but I will copy some for your amusement:

[Protagoras 3410]

Another example is the dialogue between Socrates and Strepsiadis in Aristophanes “Clouds”. At a certain moment Socrates call Strepsiadis “ανθρωπός αμαθές ουτώσι και βάρβαρος“. This make even clearer the term “barbaros” was used as a derogatory term since Strepsiadis…was a well-known Athenian. Unless skopjans insist on believing Atheneans werent greeks either.
Quote:
SOCRATES aside
Oh! the ignoramus! the barbarian!
to STREPSIADES
I greatly fear, old man, it will be necessary for me to have recourse to blows. Now, let me hear what you do when you are beaten



And something for Sime…
They may support you for the moment. Do you think they will support you for ever? Do you think you are THAT important to them? Will you rely your existence on Americans? Think again…

Michelos, the fact that the ancient Macedonians were a separate nation has already been widely accepted and indications in this regard can be found in a number of encyclopedias. As an illustration, following infromation has been taken from the encyclopedia Encarta (title: Europe): "Macedonia, to the north of Greece, had not originally been part of the Greek wold". This veracity has been confirmed by a row of international researchers and experts on ancient Macedonia, and the list of names is very long.

Also Michelos, the only thing standing in the way of Macedonias entry to Nato and EU is Greece. The fact that Macedonia has met criteria for a Nato entry is widely documented. A greek veto over the name being the only reason why she was not invited is too widely documented.

When the rules change for discounting narrow minded unilatteral objectives of any one country, then greece will have no more cards to play. BOO HOO!!

Then "samo napred za MAKEDONIA"

I present sources of the past and you present me… Encarta? And you want to discuss based on Encarta? Is this another joke of yours?

Yes, the only thing standing in your way is us, even if we are supported by some countries. The good news about us is that you managed to prove that you are unworthy for entering to the alliance and to EU (you recent elections).

So.. back off… and let "Anonymous the Great" to answer my posts! He is more serious and he can represent you much better!

The criteria FOR FYROM to entry to Nato and EU is just to change the NAME!
Totaly distinguish from our REAL MAKEDONIA.

michelos, eat a dick you cocksucker!

Hellenass, so if I jump on a plane and ask to be flown to Macedonia they will take me to Greece.

Get Real!!!!!

You have west central and east macedonia. In Australia we call them councils, for example Hindmarsh Council. That's not even closely resembled to an ethnic identity or name of our country.

You guys are spaced out if you think that those areas seriously contend with our Constitutional name Republic of Macedonia.

We are NOT slavs we are Macedonians.

So get over yourself Hellenass.

Anonymous the Great.

If I jump on a plane and ask to be flown to PSEUDOMACEDONIA or SLAVOMACEDONIA, they will take you to FYROM.

If you ask to be floWn to Macedonia they will take you to Thessaloniki Greece, the REAL MACEDONIA...!
:))

Yeah that makes sense Hellenass.

BUT only if Kosta or Dora are flying the plant :)


Anonymous the Great

Also if flying the plan a person from NATO and EU!
:))

WOW111111111111 Obama must be so powerful to incite so much claim om Macedonia, Is it Greece or is it Macedonia. Maybe we should call Greece Ancient Macedonia and call Macedonia Ancient Greece????
or you can call each other Brothers and Sisters of Cleopatra??????????????????????


Hm'mmm interesting

To Anonymous the Great

:))

HAHA EU and NATO are they real people are they???????????????

The plane would land the real macedonians in macedonia.

But the neo nazi greeks against the real macedonians to turkey!

You can't have people that were once macedonians 100 years ago now calling themselves greeks and hating the ROMacedonians that badly.

OR maybe there are some brainwashed greeks pampered by the greek government given their orders to hate us.

ATG

You thing people from NATO and EU are not real people????
tHEN When you ask to entry to NATO and EU you have to tell them that you thing they are not real people!
And the only real people are you SLAVS wich try to STEAL THE HISTORY and HERITAGE from a GLORIOUS NATION, HELLAS!!!

You are not Slavs? Let’s see..

What is Slav?
The Slavic peoples are a linguistic branch of Indo-European peoples, living mainly in Europe…

more you can find on the following ling:Slavic peoples

According to this, your race is classified as south Slavic. In fact, in a part of this document, you are being classified in BulgaroMacedonian group.

What I never understood is your hate about Slavs! You speak like the rest Slavs, you write like the rest of the Slavs and genetically, you share the same characteristics (mostly with Bulgarians).

I really can’t understand how an intelligent person not to understand this and to reject his origin.

Please, give me some explanation.

TO SIME : When I make a “Macedonian” speak like this, it’s a small victory for me!

Michelos, what do you want me to say about slav people???? I am not knocking them. I speek a Macedonian language that was slavasizesd by Kiril and Metodius.

You greeks forbid the speaking of Macedonian in Greece and you forced everybody to learn greek in night school all the while you imported turks that know greek.

How backward are you? Tell me I hate slavs when your country forbids it???????????

Let it be taught in greece, at schools and churches etc. Go on I dare you??

I'm very proud of my Macedonian language. I don't see people on the way to greek school telling me they are going to learn Macedonian.

So you show me a map on Wikki titles slav speaking people. I see countries like Russia, Serbia etc. What do you call our country?

So were closely related to the bulgarians? Half your food is turkish therefore you guys are closely related to the turks. Going back further the ethiopians.

Go on Michelos tell me I'm wrong? Tell me you greeks are ethnically homogenous. Like a good little puppet.

As for Hellinass. Nato and EU are just clubs built on rules. They are not people. Rules are made to be altered. Don't get too comfortable with your power.

Anonymous the Great

Macedonian language that was slavisized? Can you explain it more please? You talk about a language that borrow some elements of the other Slavic languages? Is it something completely different from the others?

As for the use of a Slavic language in Greece, by the next year, they will teach Russian in public schools, specially in the areas where most Russians and Ukranians live. Also, they already teach Turkish. Can you dare me more?

You will never see people on the way to Greek school telling you they are learning Macedonian because Macedonian was never a language but only a dialect (talking about the ancient Macedonians of course). So, of course, we are learning Greek. Not Macedonian!

Half of our food is Turkish? Excuse me? It seems you know too good the way we eat! Maybe that’s the reason for blocking “Macedonian lamb”. We wanted to keep our purity!!!

We, the Greeks, like everybody else we are not ethically homogenous. Nobody is. Since you like to mention Turks then keep in mind that the affects of their occupation was the same to our race and you your race.

You claim that we have Ethiopian origin? Is that famous genetic research you are talking about? What did this research proved about your relation with Bulgarians? What? THEY EXCLUDED BULGARIANS? But they included Ethiopians?
Nice. Very objective research!
If you want to talk more about it, be my guest.

As for EU and NATO, sure they are not people but they are run by people and governments. Your advice is good but also have in mind that we wont give up easily. It will take something more than your, temporary, American friends to get over us.

There is so many totally braiwashed Athenians here.If Alexander and Filip were Greeks why do they call their kingdom
MACEDONIA,why not Greece? The history of Macedonians is hidden in the World's archives. With the invent of Internet, it is easier to uncover the truth. To all those claiming that Macedonians were a communists' invention in the 1940's, it is recommended to search the online database of the USA Immigration Office:

http://www.ellisisland.org/

where it is documented that Macedonians with original Macedonian names (not Greek) have immigrated in USA since the very opening of the Immigration Office in 1892.

Interesting facts can be uncovered from this database. Namely, if we narrow the search only to the part of Macedonia which is now occupied by Greece, there is a continuation of the immigration of Macedonians to the USA, unlike Greeks who have started to immigrate from this region only after 1915. I.E. two years after the Greece?s occupation of that part of Macedonia.

This part of Macedonia has been named ?the newly occupied territories? in official Greece?s governmental documents in that time.

There are many foreign witnesses for the genocide that Greeks did over the Macedonian people. One should be interested in the Report of the Carnegie Commission in 1914.

The exodus of the Macedonians from that part of Macedonia in 1948 is also well known in many countries who accepted the refugees (Czecho-Slovakia, Poland, Russia, Ukraine, Uzbekistan, ?, the whole former Yugoslavia).

The Germans apologized for their victims in the WW2, and that is the proper way to do it. Today Macedonians would accept the Greeks? apology, but they have to admit it. Oh sorry, they have to admit that there exist Macedonians in a first place! And that?s exactly the catch behind the Greeks? hysteria about the name of Macedonia. No Macedonia ? no Macedonians, no crimes in the past, everything has been Greek, always.

The Greeks have to accept the fact that in the north of their country there live people who self-determine themselves as Macedonia and have created a country named Macedonia, since 1944.
In the occupied lands it has been forbidden to mention the name Macedonia or Macedonians until 20 years ago. The region was named Northern Greece, until in 1988, the Greek?s policy has made a spectacular turn-over and started to rename everything to be Macedonian, but this time claiming ?Macedonia is Greek?.

The regions in the northern Greece are called today ?West Macedonia?, ?Central Macedonia? and ?Eastern Macedonia and Trace?. The situation is the same as if the UK would demand that Ireland changes its name because it has a federal unit called Northern Ireland.

Another argument which appears in many Greek texts is that Macedonians are Slavs who came to the Balkans in the 6th century and hence do not have the right to call their country Macedonia.

How about if Macedonians and Slavs were actually the same people!!! Read about the recent deciphering of the middle text of the Rosetta Stone, which shows that the Ancient Macedonians, who ruled with Egypt for over 300 years, actually spoke a Slav dialect.

http://rosetta-stone.etf.ukim.edu.mk/EN/index.html

The theory that Slavs came into Europe and into Balkans in the 6th century from a region behind the Karpati mountains has been created by the German politicians in the middle of the 19th century to justify their ?right? to the whole Europe. And this argument has been used against other Slav nations like Czechs and Slovenians. See the text "Origin of the speeches" on
http://www.veneti.info

If the Slavs came from behind the Karpati then Ukraine would have been called Usredina (?In the center?) and not Ukraina (?In the far end?). The phrase ?Behind the Karpati? first appeared in a history book in Ukraine in the Middle Ages and has ever since been copied and pasted in all history books without worrying to whom it is ?behind?. That?s why the first president of the Republic of Macedonia has once or twice said that Macedonians have nothing to do with Ancient Macedonians, because he was taught so.

Even if it is admitted that Slavs came to Macedonia in the 6th century, what happened to the Ancient Macedonians!?! At least it should be admitted that they have mixed.

So who gives the right to contemporary Greeks to forbid somebody?s name?!?

EU is so hypocritical about this matter. It defends Greece, so UK and France vote in her favor at the Security Council of UN, only to present some unifying foreign policy of EU. But in the case of Kosovo, EU did not have to have a unifying foreign policy anymore, but rather each country can recognize it in its own opinion!

By simply and only watching how the basic human right for self-determination of Macedonians is being abused by Greece, the EU and NATO became co-participants of a crime. It is never late to stop the crime. It should start by immediate admition of the Republic of Macedonia in UN under its eternal name Macedonia.
And last,just read the GENETIC PROVES about our ANTIC GENES.
http://www.makedonika.org/processpaid.aspcontentid=ti.2001.pdf

Why dont you call serbian language-slavoserbian, or russian-slavorussian,or bulgarian slavobulgarian...? Also, how can you be shure that Macedonian language is a bulgarian dialect, but not bulgarian is MACEDONIAN DIALECT? Because Dora and Kostas told you so? I bet you dont even know a word in Macedonian or Bulgarian? Plus how can be a dialect vhwn our alphabets have a lot of different letters? Also, i know some greek, and i know that greek have a lot of so called slavic letters.
Stop being limited and anti-macedonian. Take the truth like a man, and stop cryung. ANATHEMA SAS

Also Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia and Montenegro HAVE APSOLUTELY SAME LANGUAGE! So why nobody is denying the existence of croatian, or bosnian...language? Also, if you call us Vardarska, then you supose to call Serbia DUNAVSKA BANOVINA, because that use to be its name.

Ancient Macedonian Genes in the the Modern Macedonian Nation not-related to the Greek Nation
National Center for Biotechnology Information
Universidad Complutense, Madrid, Spain


HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks
Tissue Antigens 2001 Feb; 57(2):118-127

Department of Immunology and Molecular Biology, H. 12 de Octubre, Universidad Complutense, Madrid, Spain. aarnaiz@eucmax.sim.ucm.es
Arnaiz-Villena A, Dimitroski K, Pacho A, Moscoso J, Gomez-Casado E, Silvera-Redondo C, Varela P, Blagoevska M, Zdravkovska V, Martinez-Laso J.

HLA alleles have been determined in individuals from the Republic of Macedonia by DNA typing and sequencing. HLA-A, -B, -DR, -DQ allele frequencies and extended haplotypes have been for the first time determined and the results compared to those of other Mediterraneans, particularly with their neighbouring Greeks. Genetic distances, neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analysis have been performed. The following conclusions have been reached:

1) Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum, like Iberians (including Basques), North Africans, Italians, French, Cretans, Jews, Lebanese, Turks (Anatolians), Armenians and Iranians,

2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum,

3) Greeks are found to have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan (Ethiopian) people, which separate them from other Mediterranean groups. Both Greeks and Ethiopians share quasi-specific DRB1 alleles, such as *0305, *0307, *0411, *0413, *0416, *0417, *0420, *1110, *1112, *1304 and *1310. Genetic distances are closer between Greeks and Ethiopian/sub-Saharan groups than to any other Mediterranean group and finally Greeks cluster with Ethiopians/sub-Saharans in both neighbour joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses. The time period when these relationships might have occurred was ancient but uncertain and might be related to the displacement of Egyptian-Ethiopian people living in pharaonic Egypt.

There was city-states in ancient Hellas (such as Athens, Sparta and Corinth, Thebes, etc).
And Kingdoms (such as Crete, Epirus, Makedonia, Thaki, Argos, Sparta, before became city-states, etc).

You are Slavs
You have slavic Culture
You have slavic herous - Goce Delchev, Kriste Misirkov etc
You speak slavic - Servobulgarian
You have slavic names


See here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Church_Slavonic

To Anonymous retard at 22:05:

Dropped genetics paper lacked scientific merit
Nature 415, 115 (10 January 2002); doi:10.1038/415115b

Sir – Even though the controversial withdrawal of a paper on the genetic relatedness of Palestinians and Jews by the journal Human Immunology (see Nature 414, 382; 2001) is a minor episode compared with the tragedies caused by ethnic/religious conflicts over past decades, the issues involved are worth revisiting.

The stated purpose of the paper by Antonio Arnaiz-Villena et al. was to "examine the genetic relationships between the Palestinians and their neighbours (particularly the Jews) in order to:(1) discover the Palestinian origins, and (2) explain the historic basis of the present ... conflict between Palestinians and other Muslim countries with Israelite Jews".
They conclude: "Jews and Palestinians share a very similar HLA genetic pool that supports a common ancient Canaanite origin. Therefore, the origin of the long-lasting Jewish–Palestinian hostility is the fight for land in ancient times."

It is difficult to believe that knowledge of genes may help to explain the present conflict. Although population genetics can address issues of relatedness of populations, mating patterns, migrations and so on, obviously it cannot provide evidence about reasons for conflicts between people.

Our primary concern, however, is that the authors might be perceived to have been discriminated against for political, as opposed to legitimate scientific, reasons.

Even a cursory look at the paper's diagrams and trees immediately indicates that the authors make some extraordinary claims. They used a single genetic marker, HLA DRB1, for their analysis to construct a genealogical tree and map of 28 populations from Europe, the Middle East, Africa and Japan. Using results from the analysis of a single marker, particularly one likely to have undergone selection, for the purpose of reconstructing genealogies is unreliable and unacceptable practice in population genetics.

The limitations are made evident by the authors' extraordinary observations that Greeks are very similar to Ethiopians and east Africans but very distant from other south Europeans; and that the Japanese are nearly identical to west and south Africans. It is surprising that the authors were not puzzled by these anomalous results, which contradict history, geography, anthropology and all prior population-genetic studies of these groups. Surely the ordinary process of refereeing would have saved the field from this dispute.

We believe that the paper should have been refused for publication on the simple grounds that it lacked scientific merit.

Neil Risch
Department of Genetics, Stanford University School of Medicine, Stanford, California 94305, USA

Alberto Piazza
Department of Genetics, Biology and Biochemistry, University of Torino, Via Santena 19, 10126 Torino, Italy

L. Luca Cavalli-Sforza
Department of Genetics, Stanford University School of Medicine, Stanford, California 94305, USA

THE "OATH" OF ALEXANDER THE GREAT
(OPIS, 324 BC)

"IT IS MY WISH, NOW THAT WARS ARE COMING TO AN END, THAT YOU SHOULD ALL BE HAPPY IN PEACE. FROM NOW ON, LET ALL MORTALS LIVE AS ONE PEOPLE, IN FELLOWSHIP, FOR THE GOOD OF ALL. SEE THE WHOLE WORLD AS YOUR HOMELAND, WITH LAWS COMMON TO ALL, WHERE THE BEST WILL GOVERN REGARDLESS OF THEIR RACE. UNLIKE THE NARROWMINDED, I MAKE NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN GREEKS AND BARBARIANS. THE ORIGIN OF CITIZENS, OR THE RACE INTO WHICH THEY WERE BORN, IS OF NO CONCERN TO ME. I HAVE ONLY ONE CRITERION BY WHICH TO DISTINGUISH THEM VIRTUE.

FOR ME, ANY GOOD FOREIGNER IS A GREEK AND ANY BAD GREEK IS WORSE THAN A BARBARIAN. IF DISPUTES EVER OCCUR AMONG YOU, YOU WILL NOT RESORT TO WEAPONS BUT WILL SOLVE THEM IN PEACE. IF NEED BE, I SHALL ARBITRATE BETWEEN YOU. SEE GOD NOT AS AN AUTOCRATIC DESPOT, BUT AS THE COMMON FATHER OF ALL AND THUS YOUR CONDUCT WILL BE LIKE THE LIVES OF BROTHERS WITHIN THE SAME FAMILY. I, ON MY PART, SEE YOU ALL AS EQUAL, WHETHER YOU ARE WHITE OR DARK-SKINNED. AND I SHOULD LIKE YOU NOT SIMPLY TO BE SUBJECTS OF MY COMMONWEALTH, BUT MEMBERS OF IT, PARTNERS OF IT. TO THE BEST OF MY ABILITY, I SHALL STRIVE TO DO WHAT I HAVE PROMISED. KEEP AS A SYMBOL OF LOVE THIS OATH WHICH WE HAVE TAKEN TONIGHT WITH OUR LIBATIONS".

So, you are either Greeks or barbarians. Which is it?

Wow! Many messages to read for one morning! So many answers to give?

If Alexander and Philip where Greeks why they called their kingdom Macedonian and not Greece?
If Periklis was Greek why he named his state Athens and not Greece? Or why the Spartans were living in Sparta and not in Greece? Is this the question you are asking? :-)


Original Macedonian names in US immigration office?
Yes, there are plenty of those, non-Greek names. And their names, 100% Macedonian and not.. Bulgarian or Serbian. Am I right? But we don’t deny that! We were always saying that you are a Slavic tribe that is connected to Bulgarians mostly! Sure, they claimed that they are Macedonians. Like you do. They were misleaded like you are now.

The exodus of the Macedonians in 1948
Excuse me but apologize for what? After the end of the civil war, somebody won and somebody else lost. The looser fled to other communist countries and after some decades they were allowed to return back and their property was restored. You talk about genocide? There are a lot of witnesses that communists also performed massive executions, especially in the North part of Greece. So, you claim that these communists were “Macedonians”. You say that your race made all these executions? Or you believe that your race participated in a civil war without killing people?


The north Greece named Macedonia only 20 years ago
Well… I am old enough to remember that before 20 years, the name of the region I live was Macedonia. But there more proves beyond my memory. There are names of teams (Makedonikos FC, founded in 1928). 20th International Fair Trade of Thessalonike - 1955 also uses that “Makedonia” word. There are more proofs if you want to hear. So, the fairy tale that Macedonia word was forbidden is nothing more than your propaganda. They convinced you that the Greeks started to use this word in 1980. We are using it of the last 2500 years but in our modern history, we use it too!


How about if Macedonians and Slavs were actually the same people?
Now this is something new. (Be aware. Maybe some Macedonian nationalists try to kill you).
Many years after the discovery of the Rosetta stone, some “Macedonians”, recently, discovered the first (and only) evidence of non-Greek use in ancient Macedonia. I suppose you also found the same language in several places in your Macedonia. I suppose that if I visit a museum (of your country) I will see written text using this language and not Greek language. I also suppose that you are able to read this language. Right? Because, me, as Greek, knowing modern Greek, I will be able to spell the text in Rosseta stone and maybe I will understand some words – phrases. I suppose you will do the same… after all you speak Macedonian…

The theory that Slavs came into Europe and into Balkans in the 6th century from a region behind the Karpati mountains has been created by the German politicians

Nice theory. So you existed before the 6th century here. And I suppose you discovered that very recently… because, my wife, who is Ukrainian and was educated in the Soviet system and later in the Ukranian, start laughing when she heard your argument.

So who gives the right to contemporary Greeks to forbid somebody?s name?!?
YOU DID! The interim agreement gives us this right. You agreed that you will change your name! So you have to negotiate about that! Why you complain?

As for that genetic research, it has been collapsed! How you didn’t hear the sound? If a proof is made from this research is that you are Slavs and it’s partial cooked! (How else can you explain the fact that in the research you include Greeks and Ehtiopians but you exclude Buglarians? I am wondering how similar your DNA will be with theirs!

1. If we were Bulgarians, we would call our selves Bulgarians, not Macedonians for centuries and centuries and centuries…….. Sorry but we don’t need you to tell us WHO we are!
2. “after some decades they were allowed to return back and their property was restored” ABSOLUTELY NOT TRUE! Do you even know that your country have a LAW saying that: ONLY REFUGEES WITH GREEK GENES ARE PERMITTED TO GET THEIR PROPERTIES BACK!!!!? Do you also know that your country NEVER gave a entry visa to Macedonians who are born in Aegean Macedonia (or their parents), with the only purpose- to keep them away from their properties for as long as possible! Plus there is a timeline, after which will not be possible for the people to ask for their properties back.
3. If it is OK for you, if you say that someone won and someone lost, than why are you supporting the Cypriots in their fight for their lost properties? They lost, that is it. The fight is not only about the Turkish army, it is about the properties. I have a Greek-Cypriot friend, who is from the north (occupied)part, and his parents lost thousands of square meters of land, and all they want is to GET IT BACK! Or why are you Greeks still saying “Constantinople” is Greek? Sorry is not any more, and is Istanbul!
4. How do you explain the fact that after the partition of Macedonia in 1912 between Bulgaria, Serbia and Greece, in the OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS Greece was referring to Aegean Macedonia as NEWLY OCCUPIED TERRITORIES? Maybe we should start pressuring you to return the occupied parts to us? Maybe we should start calling you PSEUDOKRATOI?
5. As for the genetic study, WE didn’t do it, but Spanish national university lab sponsored by the Spanish government. I don’t know much about HDL or whatever they use, but I’m shore in one thing: The genes prove that we are much older than the Slavs on the Mediterranean and also we are not some kind of a “new race”. And yes there is not Bulgarians in the study, nor Albanians, Russians…. Simply because THIS study is for the OLD races, not the Slavs.
6. If Macedonia was Greek kingdom, then why only 2.5 Million Greeks “feel” like Macedonians? Why not all 11 Million? Simply because, only the people living on the geographical aria called Macedonia. Well guess what, WE also live on the geographical aria called Macedonia. Plus our country is located 100% on he geographic Macedonia. There is a huge difference between geographical and ETHNIC MACEDONIANS! So what is your problem. The Macedonians feel like Macedonians no mater where they live, Australia, USA, UK…..

Also I didn’t see any answer to anonymous 21:34, 21:57. It is true, WHY DON’T YOU OBJECT on the name or existence of their languages? And yes at the beginning all the states in Yugoslavia were called BANOVINA – Province. After they became a states.

Because you Greeks are so shore that Macedonians and Bulgarians are same people, and you think that Macedonian language is actually Bulgarian language, be my guests and go to this pages. You will see that in the Bulgarian alphabet there is 6 letters that we don’t have and they have 30 leters, in the Macedonian language there is 7 letters that Bulgarians don’t have and we have 31 letters. Plus we have so many words which are different and not even close to each other. In the Greek alphabet from 24 letters there is 16 letters that are written and pronounced same as in the “Slavic Languages.

http://www.macedoniadirect.com/azbuka.htm

http://www.kirildouhalov.net/language/alphabet.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alphabet

1. But somebody told you who are you. Right? What if that somebody is mistaken? (I know this question is applies to everybody, but have you ever thought about it?)

2. Sorry but very true, indeed. I have friends that returned from Russia and got property back. Sorry but it happened (although some Greeks didn’t like it). The fact, that the government gives property back to Greeks only, has a meaning! How the state will give land to everybody claiming that once he had property there? I remind you that first happened the WWII, then the civil war. So, this country was at war for about 9 years. What documents shall we recognize from this time?

3. Turkish invasion in Cyprus is against UN and the UN consul voted against it. So, practically, the Turkish occupation is illegal. Can you tell me how many countries recognize the Turkish part of Cyprus? (EXCEPT TURKEY!).
We call Instabull as Constantinople for the same reason that we call Plovdiv as Philippoupolis : IN RESPECT OF OUR HISTORY AND OUR ANCESTORS. We fully understand that it’s international name is Plovdiv but it’s historical name was Philippoupolis... and then some Slavs change it!

4.How I explain it? Ehm… sorry sir but it was newly occupied territories. How could we called them at that time? You want part’s back? Maybe we start the same and go back to ancient Greece. Greece, Small Asia, Sicily and other places will return to us. Nice idea, really.

5.Old races only? Excuse me? How they decided which race is old before performing the research?< What kind of genetic research is this when it’s closed on the boundaries of a country? Maybe they knew BEFORE the research... :D
So, you accepted that this study was not objective. Thanks a lot!

6.I really can’t understand how you still confusing this issue. Why a Greek can’t feel Macedonian, Athenian or Cretan? We all have to feel, at the same time, Macedonians and Cretans? Do you find any logic in what you say?

Why I shouldn’t object on the languages? I presented you ancient quotes the Greek origin of Macedonian language. You like to ignore it? That’s ok. But scientist can’t ignore all the Greek text that is found in the ruins of ancient Macedonian cities.

THE TRUTH - Вистина!

3 languages

ENGLISH – BULGARIAN - ?????

Water - Вода - Вода
Earth - Земя - Земја
Sun - Слънце - Сонце
Love - Любов - Љубов
Metre - Метър - Метар
Universe - Вселена - Вселена
Matter - Материя - Материја
Sex - Пол - Пол
Homosexuality - Хомосексуалност - Хомосексуалност
Culture - Култура - Култура
Human - Човек - Човек
Sound - Звук - Звук
Liquid - Течност - Течност
Square - Квадрат - Квадрат
Science - Наука - Наука
Physics - Физика - Физика
Summer - Лято - Лето
Mountain - Планина - Планина
Philosophy - Философия - Философија
Anthropology - Антропология - Антропологија
Language - Език - Јазик
Gas - Газ - Гас
Sociology - Социология - Социологија
Greek language - Гръцки език - Грчки јазик
Greek alphabet - Гръцка азбука - Грчка азбука
Bulgarian language - Български език - Бугарски јазик
Star - Звезда - Ѕвезда
Society - Общество - Општество
Cell - Клетка - Клетка
Bacteria - Бактерии - Бактерија
Romance languages - Романски езици - Романски јазици
Serbia - Сърбия - Србија
Old Church Slavonic - Старобългарски език - Старословенски јазик
Marriage - Брак - Брак
Animal - Животни - Животни
Mineral Минерал Минерал

You all are Greeks in Greece, at least your government says so. Then if Fillip’s and Alexander’s kingdom was Greek than all of you Greeks suppose to fill like Macedonians. Stop twisting it and try to get my point. Don’t mix two different things who don’t go together. Plus you didn’t prove to me that WE (the people in Republic of Macedonia) don’t have a right to call our selves MACEDONIANS. We have the right, despite you selfish Greeks want the exclusive right on it and are calling us Skopjanians. And now since we came to this point I will tell you that NOT all Macedonians FEEL like Skopjanians, simply because they are not from Skopje, but from Veles, Bitola,Kumanovo, Berovo….. BUT WE ALL FELL LIKE MACEDONIANS! If I’m wrong tell me, do the Greeks born and living in Australia feel like Greeks? Absolutely. Then all of you 11 Millions should feel like Macedonians. But you don’t, normally because even that 2.5 million Greeks are not real Macedonians, but ONLY people who live on the geographic region of Macedonia. THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE!
The difference between the kingdom of Macedonia and the Greek polis is not in the political system, but in the sophistication. Just go to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o7Pn5st68k

I guess that your plan in 1991 for denying our existence was exactly the same as for Norden Cyprus, just you didn't plan that 125 countries will recognise us.
And same aplyes for you, someone told you that you are Greek, but maybe is wrong, maube you are Turkish, and maybe your name should be Muhamed? How can you be shore that you have ancient Greek genes? Any proves? Or maybe you were brainwashed for centuries?
If that teritories were yours before the Otoman Empire, as your politicians say, than they should not call them "occupied" but "returned" for example. The word OCCUPIED is not adequate.
Old races i mean, races that are known to be present in Europe and the Meditheranean far before everyone else.Something which is well known, acording to the historic proves.Dont twist my words and try to be more openminded.
Also the scientists cant ignore what is written on the Roseta Stone.
About the languages you dont want to understand me. I am talking abouth so many differences between Macedonian and Bulgarian language. For example, we have 31 letter, they have 30, we have 7 letters that they dont, they have 6 letters that we dont. How can this be same language or "dialect"? Lets compare all the "slavic Languages and then you vill see that they all have simularities. Even Greek language from 24 letters have 16 letters which are written and pronaunced same as the "Slavic". Maybe your language is Slavic as well? I can tell you, Macedonian and Greek language have a lot of same words. Piperi=Piperka, Maidanos=Magdonos
Tomata=Domati
Portokali=Portokal.... I want to say, it is time for the Greeks to stop this nonsence. On the Balkans there is so many different nations and etnicums. Is impossible to say that you are exclusively desendants from the anthic, and everyone else just came after. We all have mixed customs, culture, languages.... That is why this " name issue" is so stupid. We dont want exclusivity of the naun "macedonia", YOU do, and that is pathetic.

You recognise Firomian Language in my text?????

It is JUST English - Bulgarian & Bulgarian!!!

:-)))

Eh.. forgive me but.. We agreed the use of the word Macedonia in your name. So, we don’t claim exclusive rights. Names like North Macedonia or SlavMacedonia are names that includes the word Macedonia and we have agreed on their use. But if you use the name Macedonia as the name of your country then what will happen to the Greeks that live in the Greek part of Macedonia? How we suppose to call them? AegeanMacedonians (People in florina may have never seen the sea in their lifes!).

About the languages, I consider different languages the languages that are really different. If I go to Cyprus, it will be very hard for me to understand them. But yet, they speak Greek! Also at Creta (my origin) the people speak Greek quite differently. People of the north find hard to understand them. But, they speak Greek with Cretan idiom. It’s the same language. You want to go further? It’s very HARD to understand Scottish! But I suppose the rules of the English language apply to them too!

The fact that there are small differences between Slavic languages does not make them completely different. The roots are the same. Otherwise how you explain that Russians are comfortable with Bulgarian (so with your Macedonian?).

And about that “Macedonian feeling”...
You are such a small country that everybody can feel the same. We are not big but definitely we are quite big to have different “feelings” of the same thing. It’s like saying “Hey, you feel Skopian? Then you are not Macedonian.”. You deny the right of somebody to love his place (Skopje) feel like this?

We are Greeks. We consider Macedonia, Creta, Peloponisos (etc) as parts of our country. It makes sense for the people who live in these areas to feel Macedonians, Cretans, Peloponisians etc. If we had only Macedonian then everybody would feel Macedonian. If we had only Creta then everybody would feel Cretan. You think that Greeks that live in Australia or US feel only Greeks and not Cretans or Macedonians? Why is so hard for you to understand?

The difference between Macedonian Kingdom and the rest Greece was, yes I agree, the sophistication of the political system! So? Is the political system a criterion of origin?
That difference was the main reason that many Greeks hated Macedonians. But hey, we have tradition on hating ourselves! :D

Hah, also people in Gevgelija, or Veles maybe never seen Skopje but you are calling them Skopjanians :).
Yes I know that is hard to understand the Cypriots or Cretans or.... but they really speak SAME language but different dialect. Also for us is hard to understand the people from Strumitsa but that is also different DIALECT. Don’t mix different LANGUAGE and different DIALECT. And yes, absolutely all the Slavic languages have similarities. Now you tell me which is first :).
I’m not saying that I don’t love my home city. Far away from that. Let me explain to you: you say you are from Crete. How will you feel if we call you all Athenians? You will say: Sorry but I’m from Crete, I never even go to Athens in my life!
I understand you completely, you don’t understand. So you are telling me that people there feel according to where they live? Yes I agree. You say I’m Cretan (city- island), I’m Greek (country).Thus, people in Republic of Macedonia (it is already different than province of Macedonia) feel according to where they live. I live in Skopje- I’m Skopjanka (city) and I’m Makedonka (country). Someone who live in Bitola says im Bitolcanec(city) and I’m Makedonec (country). We all live on the geographical area called Macedonia. If you ask me also people living in the Bulgarian part of Macedonia, have the absolute right to call them selves Macedonian. Now do you kapish? You CAN NOT have the exclusivity of the noun “Macedonia”. Also, in case you didn’t know, there are 12 cities or villages called Macedonia around the world.
United States
• Macedon (town), New York
o Macedon (village), New York
• Macedonia, Alabama
• Macedonia, Georgia
• Macedonia, Illinois
• Macedonia, Indiana
• Macedonia, Iowa
• Macedonia, Ohio
Other
• Macedon, Victoria, Australia
• Macedônia, São Paulo, Brazil
• Macedonia, Timiş, Romania
• Mount Macedon, Victoria, Australia, a.k.a. Upper Macedon
And they also have the absolute right to call them selves Macedonian. (we are not selfish like your LESBIANS, we are fair)

Did we EVER questioned or denied the Greek use of the noun "macedonia"? Did we EVER ask Greece to change the name of their province? Did we ever ask you to change the names of the public buildings, or products, or airtransport sompanies? Did we ever denied the existence of your people and language? Did we ask you to change ANYTHING? Did you ever change anything only because WE want so? NO,NO,NO,NO,NO,NO!!!! I will see your reaction if WE ask (blackmail) you to start changing names because we want so. WE already changed the flag because YOU didn't like it, WE already shanged the CONSTITUTION (the highest law document of the country) specificly saying :R.Macedonia have NO terithorial clames against ANY of its neighbouring countries, ESPECIALLY not Greece!, and that was not enough, so you put us trough 18 monts economy EMBARGO (in the same time when the rest of Yugoslavia was under embargo from NATO) from which we still have concequences,and you decidet to stop it only if we agree to negatiate the NAME as well!
Now you tell me who is playing fair, and who is holding 2 MILION people hostages for 17 years.
Bless us with this kind of "FRIENDLY NEIGHBOURS"! We are not your enemies, but you should be an idiot to say that Greece is Macedonian friend!

It is ever so interested to read that 2 million people are held hostages by Greece. While I am all for a solution deriving with both parties pleased, the stance of FYROM during talks (on and off stage) depected a very similar political placement such as the one with Georgia and Russia. With the largest US embassy in Europe, currently under construction in FYROM, arms and aid deals from USA and an obvious support as reflected during the NATO summit, your country's stance has been nothing but an obsticle, making very evident that reassurances were provided by the US admin.
My point....
If you are held hostages through the means of an embargo, we've been held hostages (almost) by your country through a US administration that wishes to use a small country for its military and oil purposes.
I am certain that we are both parties lucky that Greece is a member of EU and NATO which directs to a certain extend its actions under an etiquete. The alternative could very well be a conflict with catastrophic results for both countries considering the numerous claims made over recent months by the administration of FYROM regarding opressed minorities, land and properties taken by force.
I hate to sound extrimist and over the top, however having leaved in UK for the last 11 years, I am dissapointed to see that none of the greek positions and national feelings have been ever considered and all this in the name of another ambitious US admin.

Go ahead US Citizens! Vote for HUSEIN!

Interesting read. May I point one fact, in 50 years time their will be once world government, one country, one president and one language (English) and all people will be ruled under one government, so stop bickering about Greek and Macedonian interests, they will not matter in the near future, your grand children will not care about Sun of Vergina etc..... Already Greek kids speak better English than Greek, love the internet and do not care for Greek traditions; my point is nobody and not country in the near future will have Sovereignty to govern themselves…

What you describe is not one world government but one American world. No thanks!

Who told you that Greek children do not care about traditions? What’s your view of traditions? That if a kid uses internet, it immediately gets away of tradition? In this way, using a car is untraditional, related to “the ancient Greek” style of transportation!

Get serious!

greeks are so deluded its not funny, 130 countries and counting recognise us as the republic of macedonia inluding the usa, uk, russia, china and now india thats about 3.5 billion people.thats 130 countries greece couldn't bribe with money, army gear and propagandist bullshit. There are about 500 million macedonian speakers and writers in the world, they include people from the former russian states and countries,croatia, serbia, bosnia, slovenia and other balkan countries, some polish , bulgarian, aromanian, czech, etc. so how many have adopted greek? only some of these people's relgions are different but we can identify as the way we speak and write that we are very similar as they have all adopted macedonian. if you check history greece was made up of albanians and turks. they were converted in 1820 by the great powers that formed the kingdom of greece with king otto at the helm who was born in austria very simlar way cyprus was formed. There is only 1/4 of pure greeks in greece. the rest are forced assimilation turks and albanians and since 1912 pure macedonians. since before alexander macedonia was called macedonia, during alexander macedonia was called macedonia, during bulgarian empire, macedonian empire, byzantine empire and ottoman empire it was still called macedonia,when macedonia was split in 3 by serbia, bulgaria, and greece in 1912 the serbian part of macedonia was called macedonia or southern serbia till 1925 when the serbian communist occupiers changed the name to vardarska as they changed the other nations names in the rest of yugoslavia not even serbia was called serbia or bosnia bosnia. they wanted to create a new land called yugoslavia with 6 different nations including croatia, bosnia etc and wipe all there pasts and start fresh, the people of each nation did not like this so in 1949 the communist serbs put all original names back to each nation to make them happy, serbia became serbia, bosnia became bosnia and macedonia became macedonia again. greek occupied macedonia was called northern greece from 1912 till 1988. when the greek government was hearing that yugoslavia was on the verge of falling apart and that the serbian occupied macedonia might be getting independance they changed the whole occupied macedonian region of northern greece to the name macedonia and the propaganda machine was in full motion and that is the reason for the change of name talks. greece became scared that now one part of macedonia was given freedom again that they might want to acquire the rest of occupied macedonia from greece and bulgaria. okay lets take a look at greece's name from bc times. hellas then achaea. achaea is greece's name after alexander's empire during roman rule, it included all of the greek city states sparta athens etc. funny enough i thought greece was unified funny they didn't included macedonia in this unification with achaea. here have a look http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achaea_Province . you will notice in the map macedonia stretches from the adriatic sea to the aegean sea. macedonia was the first country in europe to adopt christianity , bible doesn't lie. as for the slav invasion there was no invasion, there has never been a mention of a war. the slavs migrated and mixed with the existing people of the lands including macedonia and achaea and the rest of there balkans and adopted each lands customs. if macedonia was greece's how could they have let these slavs take all of macedonia from 500ad till the first greek set foot in macedonia in 1912 without a war, wouldn't they fight for it. don't believe greek bullshit. i know the truth.alexander killed greeks as did philip. The greeks tried for years to invade persia for there land and there treasure. It took a macedonian barbarian to do what greeks couldn't and now they want to take glory they couldn't achieve from someone else.macedonia will be called macedonia forever so greeks keep on dreaming and live off your fake history just like the people your worshipped all myths our history is real.

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Your not macedonian, your slavs.

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February 27 2010:
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