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GREECE OPPOSES TO REFERENDUM



National.

Athens will not agree to a settlement of the name issue if the authorities in Skopje put such a settlement to a referendum, conservative Kathimerini daily said on Monday.

The paper quotes the Foreign Ministry as saying that Greece does not regard an agreement something that is submitted to any kind of review process.

The same sources say the eventual referendum is a domestic affair, but the referendum should be held prior not after the agreement on name differences.

"Greece demands guarantees on basis of a decision by the UN Security Council. The veto on NATO entry remains in force, and the same goes for Skopje's EU accession talks," Kathimerini said in commentary headlined Macedonia stance a worry for Athens.

Athens has been angered by Macedonia's assertion, expressed by Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski, that Skopje would put any name settlement to a referendum.


[Makfax]

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who the fuck is greece to say what we do in our contry of MACEDONIA

greece is just a collection of states only 100 years or so ol

MACEDONIA was there before such word like greece so debate over

Very funny indeed. You get the news and you translate in the way it fits you.
What the newspaper said is that the agreement will not be valid until YOU became committed to it.
Meaning that if the negotiators agree on a name, you have to make that referendum or whatever it pleases you and AFTER that you will be allowed to enter NATO & EU.
Does it make more sense to you now?
If you don’t believe me, here is the link of the article. If you don’t know Greek use a translator!

http://news.kathimerini.gr/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_2_04/05/2008_268618

GREECE WILL NEVER NEGOTIATE AND MACEDONIA WILL NOT. SO WHAT DO WE HAVE - + - = ?? JUST LET MACEDONIA BE REPUBLIC OF MACEDONIA AND GREECE BE GREECE. 2008 NATIONALISM NEEDS TO BE ERASED TOTALLY FROM HISTORY.

I will agree with the above post. There is no place for nationalism in 21st century. But your proposal has no sense. You say that, since we (you and us) cannot negotiate, let you do whatever you want to!

I have to remind you that we accepted you to choose a name that will geographically define you country. You stucked to Macedonia which is not accepted by us because it makes you monopolize the name. We can not accept you to monopolize the name.

You change your name then we will change ours. IE Make the whole northern region of Greece a province. OTHERWISE GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE.

Some suggestions:
1. New Macedonia & New Greek Macedonia.
2. Macedona(Skopje) & Macedonia(Thesseloniki)

Get my drift???????

I assume you don’t like the names of our provinces?
We call them, west Macedonia, central Macedonia, east Macedonia and Thrace.
How do you want us to call all these places? Macedonia? :-)
I don’t think you will like this one!

The fact is that we are in a negotiation for YOUR name. We must both agree for YOUR name.
It seems that you don’t understand that!

MICHELOS; Too much history points to Macedonia being Macedonia not part of Greece. Therefore how can you say Greece picks another name for another country. How! obsurd you sound. Imagine USA picking another name foe Australia, New Zealand, Russia etc....... Come on

You talk about history?

The capital of ancient Macedonia (Pella), is in Greece
The holy city of ancient Macedonia (Dion) is in Greece
The birthplace of Aristotelis (Stagira) is in Greece
The Macedonians were speaking Greek, worship Greek Olympus gods!


Now, tell me about YOUR history points!

So, OBVIOUSLY, there is a connection to Greeks and Macedonians! You may not like it but it’s true.

Since we have rights (not exclusive because today we don’t own all Macedonia) why let YOU monopolize that name?

Greece do not care how you naming your country,
but to STOP you stealing the Greek name, the Greek history and Greek heritage.
NO MORE NO LESS.

MEMORIES REMEMBER BUCHAREST 1913
BY 1928 1,491 MACEDONIAN NAMES IN GREEK OCCUPIED MACEDONIA WERE HELLENISED-LAW 4096 ALL CYRILLIC WRITINGS WERE DESTROYED SO NO EDVIDENCE OF MACEDONIAN EXIST.

You mean documents about ancient Macedonians writing in Cyrillic? :D

In 1913 we occupied some part of Macedonia and sure, we may have Hellenised some people.

Your argument is what?
That in Macedonia there was 1,491 Macedonians that we made them Greek? You claim the history of Macedonia for less than 1500 people? Where are the rest?

Is this really an argument?

In 1913, in the land of Macedonia there were also Greeks, Turks and Jews. So, why shouldn't I believe that Macedonia belongs to you and not to Turks or to Jews?

You sound more and more ridiculous Mechelos. For how long was Pella occupied by greece. Do your maths.

You have no concept of evolution. You might as well believe v8 drag cars were driven around in 400 BC.

If you only understand one more thing in your life, language does not determine eithnicity.

Your main problem is that without the Macedonian name and connection to history you greeks are nothing.............well you know what?............your probably right.

Imagine how ridiculous you sound when you said that language does not determine ethnicity? Before more than 2 thousand years, the people were speaking only their mother language. Not 2-3 languages. And even if they knew more languages then official documents and coins has to be in the primary language.
And it was, because it was Greek.

I sound ridiculous to you but you don’t give answers to my arguments. You just ignore basic principles in history!

Macedonians were allowed in the Ancient Olympic Games, an athletic event in which only people of Greek origin participated.

Also pay attention that when you (Slavs) came to Macedonia (around 6-7 century) there was no Macedonian nation or Macedonian language or Macedonian civilization to be assimilated with. They all identified themselfs as Greeks or Romans, they had the Greek civilization, they spoke in Greek language (Medieval Koine Greek). So maybe you are partially Greeks.

MICHELOS READ THE POST CORRECTLY. NOTHING SAYS 1491 PEOPLE. GO AND HAVE YOUR EYES TESTED. AND GO AND LOOK AT YOUR GREEK LAWS THAT WERE IN PRACTICE AGAINST ETHNIC MACEDONIANS. I WILL NOT TELL WHAT YEARS YOU DO PROPER RESEARCH FROM NON GREEK AND NON MACEDONIAN INFORMATION. :D

I think that the whole discussion is at least funny. Macedonia is Greek, and you can not change that, because history changes need more resources than you can gather. I could bet that there are more books and studies on Macedonia being Greek than citizens of a small tiny state called Fyrom. You can continue stating whatever you wish, we leave in a free world. I think that every nation has the right to implement its national policies and interests. Exactly because of these reasons we Greeks have the right to call you as we wish, block you for ever on joining any international organization and also stating that Macedonia is Greek. And please do not forget that Countries do not have feelings, friends or enemies, only interests.

You are a goose!

Greeks only have narrow minded self interests not interests as a whole.

I find your comments MORANIC AND IDIOTC to say the least because you say we are free to choose to veto and right to call you what we wish....

I hope the world will see you as you are and impose bans or sanctions just to throw it back at your country then you can tell me how that feels.

I'm sure that you, your freinds and family like to be called by the names you choose as you enjoy basic human rights in your day to day living, dress how you like, speak how you like. People are polite to you, don't remind you on a daily basis that the turks ruled you for hundreds of years etc etc.

However call yourself a macedonian and the rules are different.

Typical fucken Greeks.

Don't worry you greeks will be exposed one day. Its only a matter of time.

You people from the former Turkiye Republic of greece have got NO CLUE what you a talking about. Just sh*t your mouth because you all sound ridiculous .. If Macedonia is apparently 'Greek' then why is it that you only named your northern province Macedonia in 1988??? why not before???? The word Macedonia was banned in Greece and no 1 could just even speak the word. It waz only in 1988 that you changed ur policy and all the Propaganda about Macedonia being greek started hardcore. You were scared that macedonia would Unite as Yugoslavia started 2 fall apart and part of the macedonians were free with the exception of the macedonians in Bulgaria and the Former Turkiye Republic of greece. We were macedonia Long time before and it was Philip that pissed on your city states. Thats right you had city states while we were a kingdom which shows the difference between us. All the injustice your country has done over the years shows that those who have the power write their own history but the truth is coming out and the truth hurts doesnt it?? Macedonia 4 the Macedonians

It seems that some “Macedonian” friends know the Greek laws better than I do. I am not a lawyer so I can’t claim I know the laws. Can you give me some hint about the laws you are mentioning?

Now about the name province…
Unfortunately for me (!) I am old enough to remember the year 1988,

Unfortunately for you I remember that the name of the area I live was officially Macedonia.
The difference is that we changed the name of Ministry of northern Greece to Ministry of Macedonia – Thrace.

As far as the kingdoms and city-states, it gets funnier and funnier each time I hear it. So, in Athens there was democracy but in Sparta there was not. So, I assume , according to your point of view, one of them was non-Greek, just because they had different kind of political organization! Right?

The fact that Philip conquered a part of Greece doesn’t make him non-Greek because simply, Greeks were fighting each other. It is proven. Spartans vs. Athenians and so on.

There are ancient Macedonian documents in Greek, coins using Greek letters and symbols but you like to ignore them because “If sonny is written in English, it doesn’t make it an English company”.
So since you speak Bulgaromacedonian, it doesn’t make you Macedonians neither Bulgarians. What are you then? Turks?

get off our site michelos, how much are you getting paid to do this?because in MACEDONIA we do it for the love of the contry not like you payed propaganda consultants in greece

i was in macedonia in 2000 and went to lerin and everyone that we talked too spoken was macedonian and worried if the police saw them we went to some villages and all the people in the churches and cafes spoke macedonian so please explain to me if it looks macedonian talks macedonian it must be MACEDONIAN.
you are fucken clowns and your occupation of our land is coming to a end you african leftovers

Thank God we live in the 21st century. And hopefully in due cause the the truth will come out and like in Australia Greece will say sorry to Macedonians. Even though in Australia it was not the present generation who were guilty. Someone who was a representitive for the Australian people the prime minister. Swallowed his pride and said sorry and I hope will try to make a change for Indegenous Australians. Greece take note.

3 answers and still you don’t answer!
So, when you cannot answer everything is propaganda?

How much I am paid? He! He! So, everything a Greek does is because his is racist or he gets money or.. or.. or… but a “Macedonian”.. well. He does it because he loves his country, his history, human values etc.
IF THIS WAY OF THINKING IS NOT RACIST THEN WHAT IS IT?


About Lerin : I never said that we (the Greeks) are the only people in the Macedonian land. Maybe some Greeks believe that but it can not be true. After all, it is written than when we got back Thessaloniki, there was also Bulgarians, Turks and Jews. So, I assume that some Bulgarians still remain in the land. Ops! Did I said Bulgarian? You heard Macedonian or Bulgarian? I suppose you heard something similar to your language. So, all Bulgaria is nothing but a stolen part of your country, right?

Dear Anonymous | 15:40

You wrote:
"Your main problem is that without the Macedonian name and connection to history you greeks are nothing............."

Are you serius?? Do you really believe that, Makedonian History is the only History of Hellas???

Have you ever read anything about Hellenic History???

Makedonia is a part of Hellenic History but not whole The History...

Have you ever read about:

Aeschines
Aeschylus
Aisopos
Anakreon (or Anacreon),
Anaxagoras
Anaxarhos
Anaxarsis
Anthemios
Antisthenis
Antiphanes
Aristides
Aristipos
Aristoteles
Aristophanis
Arximides
Dimokritos
Dimosthenis
Diogenis
Dionysus or Dionysos
Epicuros
Eratosthenis
Efklidis
Evripidis
Galinos
Zinon
Herakleitos
Herodotos
Isidoros
Theognis
Thukididis
Hippocrates
Hisocrates
Loukianos
Lykourgos
Lysias
Menandros
Xenocrates
Xenophon
Hippias
Homerus
Pausanias
Periandros
Periklis
Pindaros
Platon
Ploutarhos
Protagoras
Pythagoras
Sappho
Sophocles
Strabon
Sokrates
Hiperides
Xenophon, etc.

Have you ever read about:
Seven Wise men of Antiquity

Thales of Miletus
Solon of Athens
Chilon of Sparta
Pittacus of Mytilene
Bias of Priene
Cleobulus of Lindos (Rhodos)
Periander of Corinth


Have you ever read about:

Pericles
Themistoklis
Miltiades
Leonidas and his 300 Heroes
Alexander the Great
Philip II

Have you ever read about:
Battle of Thermopylae, Battle of Marathon, Battle of Salamis, Battle of Issus, Battle of Gaugamela.

Have you ever read about:
The golden age of Pelicles!

Have you ever visit:
Athens, Parthenon, Agora, Argos Peloponnese (the place that Makedonian come from), Delos, Olympia, Delphi, Mycenae, Knosos, Argos, Epidavrus, Dion, Pella, Vergina, Corinth, Dodoni etc.

And now days...

Have ever read about 1821 when few Hellines fight against whole Othoman empire and Free our country?

Have ever read about 1940 when Hellas fight against Italian Fascism and we overcame, and 1941 when Hellas fight against Germany and Nazi?
Hellas fight against fascism and Nazism and spilled so much blood... 750.000 Hellines died in the 2nd world war for the name of world's freedom.

At the same time you from FYROM what? See here http://bp2.blogger.com/_2oeLbEhyIs8/R9-UGdf0DGI/AAAAAAAAB_g/cLJv7asv3A4/s1600-h/hitler.bmp

Have ever read about Hellines Nobel prizes winers, Seferis and Elitis?
Not to mention the other great Hellines poets and novelists whose works are translated and read in every corner of the world.

Have ever read about one of the greatest mathematician in 20th century, Constantin Carathéodory? See here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantin_Carath%C3%A9odory

Have ever read about Professor Dimitri Nanopoulos? See here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimitri_Nanopoulos

Have ever read about George Papanicolaou? See here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papanicolaou_stain



We HELLINES create our History through thousands of years and we continue!! We did not steal like you people from FYROM.

We are what we are because we are HELLINES!!! Because we care for our history and our heritage. For thousands of years we fight for that. Therfor we have so Great and glorious History and so Great and glorious Nation! Therfor we created liders like Alexander the Great, Leonidas Themistokles, Solon, etc.!

To Michelos,

You want a hint, its called the international laws of human rights and the rights of minorities. You don't have to tell me that you greeks don't know that law.

You don't need to be a lawyer just have common sense and respect of different ethnic backgrounds.

you remember 1988 very well hehe I remember 1978 very well so stop trying to patranize me. I heard the term Northern Greece in the 70s constantly.

You try very hard to claim Pella as an ancient greek city. All I can gather from you is - because they fought against each other just like sparta and athens and SOME (buy only few) spoke greek bla bla bla... then they IN YOUR HEART must be greek.

BRIING ME SOLID PROOF FROM A HISTORICAL ARCHIVE THAT PELLA WAS A GREEK CITY STATE?
AND I MEAN PROOF!!!

To Hellanas

Great! all that history, brilliant!! That's exactly my point. You can bask in all that greek glory but leave out Alexander the Great and Philip II becasue they were Macedonian Kings. They rulled most of greece only because they defeated them in war. No greek ever was king of Macedonia.

"For I Alexander myself am by ancient descent a Greek, and I would not willingly see Hellas change her freedom for slavery." (Herodotus. IX, 45, 2 [Loeb])

opssss
YOU FROM FYROM ARE SLAVS

To


The speech of Alexander I, when he was admitted to the Olympic games
"Men of Athens...
Had I not greatly at heart the common welfare of Hellas I should not have come to tell you; but I am myself Hellene by descent, and I would not willingly see Hellas exchange freedom for slavery....
If you prosper in this war, forget not to do something for my freedom; consider the risk I have run, out of zeal for the Hellenic cause, to acquaint you with what Mardonius intends, and to save you from being surprised by the barbarians.
I am Alexander of Macedon."
(Herodotus, The Histories, 9.45)

I don’t understand. Do we argue if Pella was a City state or a Greek city?
My point is that Pella was not a city state. It’s was the capital city of Macedonia and it was Greek.
Obviously I can present no proof that it was a city-state. It was not.
But if you want proofs that it was Greek then it’s very easy.
Just visit Pella and the nearby museums.But I forgot. What people speak and write is not important to you!!!

About the laws you mention…
The post I responded says “LOOK AT YOUR GREEK LAWS THAT WERE IN PRACTICE AGAINST ETHNIC MACEDONIANS”. So, can you help me on that? Because I know all I have to know about human righs.

And let me clear my point : I rarely go to Florina and all the times I was there I never saw or heard something that connect the people there to your country. But it makes sense to me that not all Greek Macedonians have Greek origin because of the reasons I mentioned on previous posts.
I am sure that before 100 years our government acted in the same way as Bulgaria and Turkey.

What I am wondering is : If back in 1913, in the area of Macedonia there were Greeks, Bulgarians, Turks and let’s suppose there were also “Macedonians”, can you answer me what happened to the Greeks that lived in the area of your country?

To all slav Macedonians
As I see you want badly all of Macedonia and to have your own History. Why don't you invent a new History, let's say that you could call yourself Martians. You could claim direct descent from planet Mars, since there is no other country to claim something like this. Everybody would respect you and believe you

MACEDONIA
YOU CAN CAN GO BLUE IN YOUR FACE BY TELLING LIES AND IT STILL BE MACEDONIA MACEDONIA MACEDONIA MACEDONIA MACEDONIA MACEDONIA

The former President of The FYROM, Kiro Gligorov said:[/B] “We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century … we are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians” (Foreign Information Service Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26, 1992, p. 35).
See here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKVlty4FsZo

Michelos, Pederakis, Pooftarakis wat ever ur fucking name is.. U like 2 take it up the ass u gay piece of shit.. ur a Cocksuckerrrrrrrr!!

ubre maimun eden stop trying to put a greek label on everything. Pella was the capital of Macedonia, therefore it was Macedonian period. Yes greeks did cross the border and lived there as well I never doubted that.

Greek coins are found in macedonian terriory however coins with the head of mars or jupiter with the writing ROMA were also used in 250BC. Why are the Italians claiming to be Macedonins to be Italian?????

Don't worry you greeks had some solders in Alexander's army around 7000 out of 35000 so you can get some of the credit but only very little since they were a paramilitary.

Interesting, I have tonnes of greeks telling me I am bulgarian or speak bulgarian but as yet not one bulgarian has ever done so. Hmmmmm.

Do you go to Florina with your eyes shut? Fuck racist Greece. I know many families in the Diaspora that are Macedonian as the day is long. Maybe if I go there now and not ask them questions like a NEO NAZI GREEK I'll come up with a different result.

You people from FYROM start to be Panic!!!!

That what hapen when you try to steal the history of a Nation....

For 17 years you go around and say lies to the world! But now all this LIES is over....

After the Greek VETO the world know that the problem is not just a name issue, but high jacking Greek history from Slavs.....

No more recognitions from now on!!! ONLY WITH YOUR NEW NAME!

No enter to NATO! ONLY WITH YOUR NEW NAME!

No EU! ONLY WITH YOUR NEW NAME!


You are SLAVS clearly distinguished from Greek Macedonians!!

IF ALEXSANDAR THE GREAT AND HIS FATHER WERE STILL ALIVE THEY WOULD STAB THROUGH THE ARSS AND AN APPLE IN YOUR MOUTH AND PUT YOU ON A SPIT
SO JUST FUCK OFF AND STOP
BULLSHITING

" ...Your ancestors came to Macedonia and the rest of Hellas and did us great harm, though we had done them no prior injury. I have been appointed leader of the Greeks, and wanting to punish the Persians I have come to Asia, which I took from you..."
Arrian, Anabasis of Alexander II, 14, 4 (Loeb, P. A. Brunt) - Arrianos II (Anabasis) Historian, 95-175 AD

"Sofia, 1 May 1899,

Kolyo (Nikola),

I have received all the letters sent by you and through you. Let us not allow the splits and splintering to frighten us. It is, indeed, a pity, but what can we do, since we are Bulgarians and all suffer from one common disease. If this disease had not been present in our ancestors, from whom we inherited it, they would have never fallen under the sceptre of the Turkish Sultan..."

Goce Delchev

Ehm… excuse me sir..
I assume that everybody can see the difference between Roman coins, Macedonian coins, Athenian coins. Right?
We don’t talk about some “Greek” coins in Macedonia.
We talk about Macedonian coins with the figure of Alexander and Philip.

Not just some coins!!!

It’s obvious that you don’t like the conversation about language, currency. It seems that you don’t like the way your ancestors talked and lived! Don’t blame us for that!

It’s really interesting story the one you present: We talked Greek but we were not Greek. We talked something that there is no evidence about it and then... SOME day.. we decided to change that language and use a Slavic one! (I respect you, I don’t call it Bulgarian but this will get upset my Bulgarian friends).
Nice! Very nice! And it makes perfect sense!

Now let me go and wear my nazi’s boots. I have to go to Florina and question some people. Maybe later I will get upset and shoot some of them. Who knows?
(I am sure you do)

I have just been thinking about Aleksandar The Great, since all you Greek's have been claimimg he was Greek. After watching the movie Aleksandar The Great it portrayed Aleksandar as Gay. I have decided you can have him, since all you Greek's love it up the arse. You bunch of poofters

We can have it? Just tell it to the others too!
WE THANK YOU SO MUCH!

MICHELOS So You will have it up the arse. Do you want me to tell
all the other Greeks as well???
By the way I think Athena is a leso, thats why you are cross breeds.

When you have no more arguments to say, you start talking about gays, lesbos etc.
And, again, I say thank you so much!

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