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PROBISTIP TO BE RENAMED INTO ALEXANDRIA?



National.

The non Governmental Organization "Macedonian Civilization" is asking every city in Macedonia to have at least two large structures, streets, boulevards etc that will carry the name of Alexander the Great and Philip II, the Macedonian.

Signature for their initiative will be asked of the new Parliament as well as all City Mayors.

Macedonians can support this initiative by putting their signatures as part of a petition to be announced later this week at different locations accross Macedonia. This initiative by the MC was started yesterday. The goal of the organization is to rename at least one city in Macedonia to Alexandria, Philip and other Macedonian Historical figures.

There is no serious country in this world, that doesn't have a city called Alexandria. Every country who wishes to express any kind of heritage or calls on their roots, or just pays respect to history, has a city with this name. The United States has fifteen of them called Alexandria. 80 km south of Milan, there is a city called Alexandria as well. We are the only ones who doesn't have one, even though his heritage is ours. For example, we can call Alexandria the "Sun City" currently being built on Vodno, or the new city being built for young couples between Miladinovci and Sveti Nikole. Or, we can rename our youngest city, Probistip to Alexandria. If you ask us, Probistip is the perfect choice, because Alexander's gold mines were located in the mountains rising above Probistip, say representatives from the Macedonian Civilization.


MD: Very good idea!! This should have been done earlier, of course the Greeks will be starting making problems as soon as the town gets the name! :)

  • [Probistip]


  • [Mina]

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    Problem from the Greeks? Why? Just keep on changing those Slavic names into good Greek names...!

    As if Macedonia is the only country proposing to have a city named Alexandria. Like the article said, dozens of countries have cities named Alexandria out of respect, and we can't do the same? Because of who we are? Give me a break.

    You are Slavs
    You have slavic Culture
    You have slavic herous - Goce Delchev, Kriste Misirkov etc
    You speak slavic - Servobulgarian
    You have slavic names

    YoU steal the Greek name.....


    Very soon you will have a new name for your country......

    :)

    Megas Alexandros: For us Hellenes (GREEKS) we should not be slaves to barbarians."
    Callisthenes of Olynthus 1.15.1-4>

    Ancient Macedonia was only a small part of Greece. It was much larger than just present day Macedonia and Greece.Also there isn't any other country in the world besides present Macedonia.So Greece make up your mind ! Do you want to be callde Macedonia or Greece.Enough is enough.

    I agree with AlfaVitas. It will be a honor for us to have a Greek name instead of a Slavic one. Thank you!

    Maybe in the future you change your alphabet and start talking Greek because only then, the names and the places about ancient Macedonia will start have a meaning for you!

    Sooo all those other cities named Alexandria around the world are greek?

    Ancient Macedonian Genes in the the Modern Macedonian Nation not-related to the Greek Nation
    National Center for Biotechnology Information
    Universidad Complutense, Madrid, Spain


    HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks
    Tissue Antigens 2001 Feb; 57(2):118-127

    Department of Immunology and Molecular Biology, H. 12 de Octubre, Universidad Complutense, Madrid, Spain. aarnaiz@eucmax.sim.ucm.es
    Arnaiz-Villena A, Dimitroski K, Pacho A, Moscoso J, Gomez-Casado E, Silvera-Redondo C, Varela P, Blagoevska M, Zdravkovska V, Martinez-Laso J.

    HLA alleles have been determined in individuals from the Republic of Macedonia by DNA typing and sequencing. HLA-A, -B, -DR, -DQ allele frequencies and extended haplotypes have been for the first time determined and the results compared to those of other Mediterraneans, particularly with their neighbouring Greeks. Genetic distances, neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analysis have been performed. The following conclusions have been reached:

    1) Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum, like Iberians (including Basques), North Africans, Italians, French, Cretans, Jews, Lebanese, Turks (Anatolians), Armenians and Iranians,

    2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum,

    3) Greeks are found to have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan (Ethiopian) people, which separate them from other Mediterranean groups. Both Greeks and Ethiopians share quasi-specific DRB1 alleles, such as *0305, *0307, *0411, *0413, *0416, *0417, *0420, *1110, *1112, *1304 and *1310. Genetic distances are closer between Greeks and Ethiopian/sub-Saharan groups than to any other Mediterranean group and finally Greeks cluster with Ethiopians/sub-Saharans in both neighbour joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses. The time period when these relationships might have occurred was ancient but uncertain and might be related to the displacement of Egyptian-Ethiopian people living in pharaonic Egypt.

    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SAY HE WAS GREEK?
    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SAY HIS BLOOD IS GREEK?
    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SAY HE SPOKE ONLY GREEK?
    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SAY HIS VISIONS WERE GREEK?
    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SAY WE GREEKS SHOULD NOT BE SLAVES TO BARBARIANS?
    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SAY HIS FATHER WAS GREEK?
    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS FIGHT FOR THE GLORY of GREECE?

    WHY DID MEGAS? ALEXANDROS TAKE REVENGE FOR PERSIAN INVASION IN HIS MOTHERLAND GREECE?
    WHY WAS MEGAS ALEXANDROS PROUD OF HIS MOTHERLAND GREECE?
    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS BUILD GREEK CITIES ONLY?
    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SPREAD GREEK LANGUAGE ONLY?
    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SPREAD GREEK CULTURE ONLY?
    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SPREAD GREEK JUSTICE ONLY?
    WHY WAS HE PROUD FOR his GREEK ANCESTORS?

    To Anonymous retard at 22:03:

    Dropped genetics paper lacked scientific merit
    Nature 415, 115 (10 January 2002); doi:10.1038/415115b

    Sir – Even though the controversial withdrawal of a paper on the genetic relatedness of Palestinians and Jews by the journal Human Immunology (see Nature 414, 382; 2001) is a minor episode compared with the tragedies caused by ethnic/religious conflicts over past decades, the issues involved are worth revisiting.

    The stated purpose of the paper by Antonio Arnaiz-Villena et al. was to "examine the genetic relationships between the Palestinians and their neighbours (particularly the Jews) in order to:(1) discover the Palestinian origins, and (2) explain the historic basis of the present ... conflict between Palestinians and other Muslim countries with Israelite Jews".
    They conclude: "Jews and Palestinians share a very similar HLA genetic pool that supports a common ancient Canaanite origin. Therefore, the origin of the long-lasting Jewish–Palestinian hostility is the fight for land in ancient times."

    It is difficult to believe that knowledge of genes may help to explain the present conflict. Although population genetics can address issues of relatedness of populations, mating patterns, migrations and so on, obviously it cannot provide evidence about reasons for conflicts between people.

    Our primary concern, however, is that the authors might be perceived to have been discriminated against for political, as opposed to legitimate scientific, reasons.

    Even a cursory look at the paper's diagrams and trees immediately indicates that the authors make some extraordinary claims. They used a single genetic marker, HLA DRB1, for their analysis to construct a genealogical tree and map of 28 populations from Europe, the Middle East, Africa and Japan. Using results from the analysis of a single marker, particularly one likely to have undergone selection, for the purpose of reconstructing genealogies is unreliable and unacceptable practice in population genetics.

    The limitations are made evident by the authors' extraordinary observations that Greeks are very similar to Ethiopians and east Africans but very distant from other south Europeans; and that the Japanese are nearly identical to west and south Africans. It is surprising that the authors were not puzzled by these anomalous results, which contradict history, geography, anthropology and all prior population-genetic studies of these groups. Surely the ordinary process of refereeing would have saved the field from this dispute.

    We believe that the paper should have been refused for publication on the simple grounds that it lacked scientific merit.

    Neil Risch
    Department of Genetics, Stanford University School of Medicine, Stanford, California 94305, USA

    Alberto Piazza
    Department of Genetics, Biology and Biochemistry, University of Torino, Via Santena 19, 10126 Torino, Italy

    L. Luca Cavalli-Sforza
    Department of Genetics, Stanford University School of Medicine, Stanford, California 94305, USA

    THE “OATH”

    OF ALEXANDER THE GREAT

    (OPIS, 324 BC)



    “IT IS MY WISH, NOW THAT WARS ARE COMING TO AN END, THAT YOU SHOULD ALL BE HAPPY IN PEACE. FROM NOW ON, LET ALL MORTALS LIVE AS ONE PEOPLE, IN FELLOWSHIP, FOR THE GOOD OF ALL. SEE THE WHOLE WORLD AS YOUR HOMELAND, WITH LAWS COMMON TO ALL, WHERE THE BEST WILL GOVERN REGARDLESS OF THEIR RACE. UNLIKE THE NARROWMINDED, I MAKE NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN GREEKS AND BARBARIANS. THE ORIGIN OF CITIZENS, OR THE RACE INTO WHICH THEY WERE BORN, IS OF NO CONCERN TO ME. I HAVE ONLY ONE CRITERION BY WHICH TO DISTINGUISH THEM VIRTUE.

    FOR ME, ANY GOOD FOREIGNER IS A GREEK AND ANY BAD GREEK IS WORSE THAN A BARBARIAN. IF DISPUTES EVER OCCUR AMONG YOU, YOU WILL NOT RESORT TO WEAPONS BUT WILL SOLVE THEM IN PEACE. IF NEED BE, I SHALL ARBITRATE BETWEEN YOU. SEE GOD NOT AS AN AUTOCRATIC DESPOT, BUT AS THE COMMON FATHER OF ALL AND THUS YOUR CONDUCT WILL BE LIKE THE LIVES OF BROTHERS WITHIN THE SAME FAMILY. I, ON MY PART, SEE YOU ALL AS EQUAL, WHETHER YOU ARE WHITE OR DARK-SKINNED. AND I SHOULD LIKE YOU NOT SIMPLY TO BE SUBJECTS OF MY COMMONWEALTH, BUT MEMBERS OF IT, PARTNERS OF IT. TO THE BEST OF MY ABILITY, I SHALL STRIVE TO DO WHAT I HAVE PROMISED. KEEP AS A SYMBOL OF LOVE THIS OATH WHICH WE HAVE TAKEN TONIGHT WITH OUR LIBATIONS”.

    To anonymous 20:07:
    The cities are not Greek but founded by Greeks and they have a Greek name. Alexander is a Greek word with a specific meaning. It’s not a Slavic word and it’s not just a name like Ivan, George etc

    To Anonymous 22:03
    This research has been collapsed! Are you still mentioning it?
    Can you tell me the results of this research about the genetic relation between your people and Bulgarians? What? No research about Bulgarians? THEY BOTHERED TO RESEACH THE DNA OF GREEKS, YOURS AND ETHIOPIANS and had no time to collect some Bulgarian DNA? Very objective research… :D

    fuck you fucken greeks you changed our names now we cant do it !!!!!
    fuck you cunts.how much did you cunts pays 4years ago to win the euro cup?

    hellinas can you come over and pick up your mother i'm not fucking her any more she smells but bring your sister

    The greeks proved that Euro 2004 was one big fluke. They have not been able to back it up in World Cup Qualifiers or Euro 2008.

    Really that one is a no brainer.

    Big fluke? I suppose you did better than us...

    :P

    Why Macedonia and the Macedonians had Never been Greek?
    1. The ancient Macedonians were a distinct nation, separate from their neighbors, the ancient Greeks, Illyrians, and Thracians. The ancient Greek and Roman historians tell us that the Macedonians spoke a separate Macedonian language and had their own customs, culture, and traditions. Archeological discoveries confirm that the material culture of the Macedonians also defer greatly from all their neighbors, and it is by far more superior in artistry (gold, paintings, weapons, mosaics) then anything found in contemporary Greece, Illyria, and Thrace. The texts of the ancient writers distinguish the Macedonians from the ancient Greeks, just like they distinguish the Romans and the Carthaginians. Yet, like the other non-Greeks, Carthaginians, Romans, Illyrians, and Thracians, the Macedonian high society also used the Greek language along with Macedonian. Greek was spoken by the nobility of many different ancient nations, just like French was spoken in the 19th century (at the German and Russian courts for example). Unfortunately there are only about 150 glosses that have survived of the ancient Macedonian language (most of them with no relation whatsoever with ancient Greek), and like ancient Carthaginian, Illyrian, and Thracian, it can not be reconstructed. There is no doubt nevertheless that the Illyrains, Thracians, and Macedonians were non-Greeks, or in the words of the ancient Greeks "barbarians" which literally means people who spoke other non-Greek languages.
    2. Macedonia became a world power when the Macedonian king Philip II conquered Thrace, greater part of Illyria, and the whole of Greece (except Sparta). At the battle of Chaeronea in 338, the Macedonian army destroyed the united Greek army, and put an end to Greek freedom and ancient Greek history. To secure the Macedonian conquest, Macedonian garrisons were established in the Greek cities, just like they were established in Thrace and Illyria.
    3. Alexander the Great (336-323 BC), Philip II's son took the Macedonian armies even further and conquered the Persian Empire, making Macedonia the largest and most powerful nation in the world for centuries to come. In his army next to the Macedonians, he utilized also troops from the Balkan nations that his father Philip II conquered - Greeks, Illyrians, and Thracians. The Greeks in the Macedonian army however were commanded by Macedonians, their contribution in the conquest was insignificant and miniscule, and modern historiography calls them nothing but Macedonian "hostages" who would ensure a good behavior of their friends and families back in Greece (Peter Green, Urlich Wilcken, Ernst Badian, Eugene Borza, A.B. Bosworth). Aware that the Greeks despised the Macedonians, Alexander left massive Macedonian occupation troops in their country before heading for the conquest of Persia, although he knew that he would need as many as possible Macedonians for the dangerous campaign ahead. He however rid himself of the Greeks in his army the first chance he got, after burning the Persian capital Persepolis, and learning that the last Greek state Sparta was defeated by the Macedonian troops he left to watch rebellious Greece.
    4. Despite all, the Greeks never stopped fighting the Macedonians. While Alexander was conquering Persia with his 25-30,000 Macedonians, more then 50,000 Greeks actually fought on the side of the Persians against the Macedonians (Curtius). The Macedonians slaughtered 18,000 of them in the first battle and sent 2,000 to forced labor in Macedonia (Arrian). After Alexander died the Macedonian general Pithon massacred 23,000 more in a single battle when the Greeks revolted in Bactria (Diodorus). In Greece, when the news of Alexander the Great's death became known, the Greeks united once again and threw out the Macedonians out of their country in the Lamian War (Diodorus). But the Macedonian army returned with massive reinforcements, defeated the Greeks both on land and sea, and re-occupied Greece, putting a bloody end of the Lamian War (Diodorus).
    5. The Greeks nevertheless continued raising rebellion after rebellion against the Macedonians to free Greece from the foreign occupation. All successors of Alexander the Great fought them, and the Macedonian king Antigonus II Gonatas fought three Greek uprising who unified against the "barbarous Macedonians" (Diodorus, Plutarch, Justin). Finally in 197 BC, the Macedonian king Philip V was defeated by the joint force of Romans and Greeks, and Macedonia lost Greece after almost 150 years of occupation. When the Romans proclaimed that Greece is free, such an enormous burst of enthusiasm exploded among the Greeks that the Roman general who made the announcement was almost killed by the mass of people that flocked to shake his hand and congratulate him for diving the Macedonians out (Livy, Polybius).
    6. After the defeat of the Macedonian king Perseus in 168 BC, and the end of the Macedonian rebellion in 148 BC, Macedonia, Greece, and Carthage became part of the Roman Empire. In 395 AD with the split of the Roman Empire, Macedonia and Greece became part of the East Roman (or Byzantine) Empire.
    7. Slavs invaded the whole of Balkans in the 6th century, including Macedonia and the whole of Greece, all the way down to the Peloponnesus. Byzantine historians clearly mentioned that the Macedonians did not disappear with the Slavic invasion but continued to exist. In the 10th century Salonica is described as the "largest city of the Macedonians" and to subdue the independent Slavic tribes in the Peloponnesus in Greece, the Byzantine emperors who were Macedonians, belonging to the Macedonian Dynasty, had to sent "Macedonians and Thracians" against them. Thus the Macedonians and Slavs have been living side by side ever since the 6th century. Over period of centuries these Slavic people mixed into the Macedonians in Macedonia, and with the Greeks in Greece, and laid the foundations for the modern Macedonian and Greek nations. Historical records continue to mention the Macedonians until the fall of the Byzantine Empire. It must be stressed that there is NO record of invasion of Greeks into Macedonia.
    8. Turkey conquered the Balkans in the 14th century including Greece and Macedonia. With the help of the western powers, the Greeks freed themselves in the 1820's, but the Macedonians failed to gain freedom with their rebellions in 1870's and in 1903.
    9. Independent European and Balkan statistics (except exaggerated Greek sources) from the late 19th and early 20th century show that the Greeks were a small minority of only 10%, living in the most southern parts of Macedonia, bordering Greece.
    10. In 1913 Greece and her allies Serbia and Bulgaria, with the help of more then 100,000 Macedonians who fought along these three armies, drove the Turks out of Macedonia, but Macedonia did not gain its freedom. Instead, the Balkan countries partitioned Macedonia among themselves and Greece occupied the largest part, 51% of the whole territory, called Aegean Macedonia.
    11. Even Greeks sources, including the king of Greece himself in 1912, confirm that when the Greek armies occupied Aegean Macedonia the overwhelming majority of the population were NOT Greeks, confirming the fact that the Greeks never lived in Macedonia since the most ancient times (Nikolaides, Spiros Melas Epopee).
    12. But since 1913 Greece begun its assimilatory policies against the Macedonians, changing their family names to Greek names, renaming the cities, rivers, and mountains with Greek names, and forbidding the speaking of the Macedonian language.
    13. In the mid 1920's Greeks from Asia Minor begun migrating into Aegean Macedonia for a first time ever, and soon the Macedonians found themselves among strangers in their native land, who most vigorously attacked everything that represents the Macedonian nationality and consciousness. In the 1930's the Macedonians were forced to drink castor oil for speaking Macedonian and had to pay financial penalty for every spoken word of Macedonian.
    14. In 1991 the Republic of Macedonia, located north of Aegean Macedonia in Greece, became an independent country. The Republic of Macedonia was the part of Macedonia that Serbia occupied with the partition of 1913. In 1945 the Macedonians of the Republic drove away the fascist Albanian, Bulgarian, and German occupation forces and voted to join new federal Yugoslavia because it respected the Macedonian nationality. With the disintegration of Yugoslavia in the early 1990-1, the Macedonians voted independence in a referendum.
    15. Afraid that now one part of Macedonia is independent, the Greeks launched a world-wide propaganda against the Macedonians claiming that "Macedonia has been Greek for 4000 years" (sometimes they say 3000 years, 2500, etc. It varies.). Ironically, despite the fact that the ancient Macedonians committed a real genocide against the ancient Greeks, the ancestors of today's Greeks, despite the fact the Macedonians in Greece are oppressed by them, and despite the fact that the Greeks moved in Aegean Macedonia as majority only 75 years ago.
    16. While the Greeks only recently begun to launch the amazing claim that they are descendents of the ancient Macedonians (the people who murdered their own ancestors), it should be stressed that at least since the 18th century (DeTott) and including the 19th and 20th century, there are written records which show that the Macedonians claimed direct descendent from the ancient Macedonians in their struggle to free Macedonia from the Turks. That is centuries before Greece took Aegean Macedonia with its army and launched its propaganda.
    17. Today, as we enter the 21st century, the Macedonians of Greece continue to be harassed and discriminated by the Greek government, 87 years since Greece took over Aegean Macedonia. The Macedonian language is still not recognized, the Macedonian nationality is still denied, and the Macedonians are still forced to have Greek family names, because having a Macedonian name Greece considers illegal. Human Rights Watch (Denying Ethnic Identity - Macedonians of Greece), Amnesty International, and the European Community have the Greek oppression of the Macedonians well documented, found Greece guilty, and demanded that it recognize the Macedonian language and nation and end its oppression. Despite of it, the Macedonians continue to exist in Greece as majority in the northern half of Aegean Macedonia and as minority in the southern half, and peacefully continue to demand their human rights. Will Greece ever became a democracy?
    18. The Greeks and the Macedonians also greatly defer in physical appearance. The Greeks have typically darker tan then the Macedonians who are fair skinned. Historian Arthur Waigell have stated that the same difference in complexion existed between the ancient Greeks and Macedonians, and the ancient Greek historian Plutarch wrote that Alexander the Great had a fair complexion, criticizing a certain Greek sculptor who had given him a darker tan. The fact that both the Greeks and Macedonians have kept their ancient names is proof that both have been aware of, and preserved their lineage since most ancient times. And finally the latest scientific genetic research conducted by the University in Madrid, Spain concluded that the Macedonians are direct descendents of the ancient Macedonians, while the Greeks are unrelated to European origins and to the "older" Mediterranean substratum to which Macedonians belong to.

    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SAY HE WAS GREEK?
    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SAY HIS BLOOD IS GREEK?
    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SAY HE SPOKE ONLY GREEK?
    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SAY HIS VISIONS WERE GREEK?
    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SAY WE GREEKS SHOULD NOT BE SLAVES TO BARBARIANS?
    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SAY HIS FATHER WAS GREEK?
    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS FIGHT FOR THE GLORY of GREECE?

    WHY DID MEGAS? ALEXANDROS TAKE REVENGE FOR PERSIAN INVASION IN HIS MOTHERLAND GREECE?
    WHY WAS MEGAS ALEXANDROS PROUD OF HIS MOTHERLAND GREECE?
    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS BUILD GREEK CITIES ONLY?
    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SPREAD GREEK LANGUAGE ONLY?
    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SPREAD GREEK CULTURE ONLY?
    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SPREAD GREEK JUSTICE ONLY?
    WHY WAS HE PROUD FOR his GREEK ANCESTORS?

    Why the Macedonians and Bulgarians are Two Separate Nations?



    1. The roots of the Macedonians are in ancient Macedonia in Europe since 8th century BC, while the roots of the Bulgarians are in the Turko-Morgilic Bulgars who came to Europe from Asia in the 7th century AD. While the Bulgars are intruders in the Balkans, the Macedonians had preserved their name through the centuries and evidence shows that they have always associated themselves with the ancient Macedonians.



    2. When the Macedonian king Alexander the Great (336-323 BC) conquered Asia, he too conquered ancient Bulgaria. In the writings of the ancient historian Pseudo-Calisthenes there is a list of the nations that the Macedonians conquered and the Bulgars are on that list along with the Greeks, Egyptians, Persians, and the other conquered nations.



    3. When Rome conquered the Balkans, Macedonia and its eastern neighbor Thrace became part of the Roman Empire. In the late 4th century AD with the split of the Roman Empire, Macedonia and Thrace became part of the East Roman (or Byzantine) Empire.



    4. In the 6th century the Slavs invaded the Balkans including Macedonia and Thrace and settled among the ancient Macedonians and Thracians.



    5. In the 7th century the Turko-Mongolic Bulgars for a very first time entered Europe from their original Asian home, invaded Thrace, and subdued the Thracians and Slavs. Since this moment the mix between the Bulgar intruders, Thracians, and Slavs will result in the formation of the modern Bulgarian nation.



    6. The Bulgars also attacked Macedonia, Epirus, Serbia, conquered parts of these lands, and held them for some time but never permanently. Modern Bulgarian historiography claims that the Bulgar conquest of parts of Macedonia transformed the Macedonians and the Slavs in Macedonia into Bulgarians. The claim is quite ridiculous and easily dismissed for the following main reasons:

    a) There is NO recorded settlement of Bulgars in Macedonia as there is recorded the settlement of the Slavs among the Macedonians, or as is recorded the settlement of Bulgars among the Thracians and Slavs in Thrace.

    b) The Bulgar intrusion into Macedonia was nothing but a temporary conquest by foreign armies. Because it was a temporary conquest it is impossible to imagine that the Macedonians suddenly "evolved" into Bulgarians. The case is identical with Serbia since the Bulgarian armies also conquered that country. The Serbians as we know did not turn into Bulgarians either. Likewise the conquest of Russia of the Caucasus countries did not turn these people into Russians despite both of centuries of occupation and Russian settlements among the natives.

    c) The Romans held Macedonia for more then 12 centuries and yet the Macedonians continued to be mentioned as nation in Byzantine sources, both before and after the Bulgarian conquest. Thus, since the Romans did not turn the Macedonians into Romans after 12 centuries it is more then impossible that the Bulgarians could have turned them into Bulgarians after holding parts of that land over a miniscule period of time.

    7. Modern Bulgarian historiography also claims that the apostle brothers St. Cyril and Methodius from the 10th century, who came from the largest Macedonian city Salonica were Bulgarians. However such claim is also impossible since Salonica was never taken by the Bulgarians. The city obviously kept its original Macedonian population since Byzantine records of those times call it "the largest city of the Macedonians". Thus, Cyril and Methodius could not be anything else but Macedonians. Cyril and Methodius' father was an important Macedonian in Salonica. It is simply impossible that he or his sons even looked like the typical Turko-Mongolic Bulgarians from the 11th century.

    8. Modern Bulgarian historiography denies that the modern Macedonians are descendents of the ancient Macedonians, but ironically it recognizes that the modern Bulgarians are descendents of the ancient Thracians. Right away they contradict themselves since it is impossible to imagine that the Thracians existed in the 7th century when the Bulgars settled among them, while the ancient Macedonians somehow disappeared a century earlier when the Slavs settled Macedonia. The fact that the Macedonians are mentioned as nation and Slavs are mentioned as living side by side by them in Macedonia in the following centuries by the Byzantine historians is proof that the Macedonians did not mysteriously cease to exist. It also proves that the modern Bulgarian historians are attempting to falsify the history of the Macedonian nation to their likes, although unsuccessfully.

    9. The Turks entered Europe in the 14th century with the help of the Turko-Mongolic Bulgars conquered the Balkan countries, including Macedonia and Thrace.

    10. After centuries of ruthless oppression, the Balkan peoples lost a clear ethnic identification. The Greeks called themselves Romanoi, the Bulgarians called themselves Serbs, Greeks and Bulgars, while the Macedonians called themselves Christians, Bulgarians, Slavs, but also Macedonians. There are Russian, Austrian, German, English sources since the 15th centuries which mention the existence of the Macedonians among their neighbors Serbians, Greeks, and Bulgarians. Furthermore written records show that Macedonians claimed a lineage from Alexander the Great and the ancient Macedonians.

    11. In the 19th century when nationalism swept the Balkans and the Greek and Bulgarians strove to develop their own Greek and Bulgarian nationality, so did the Macedonians strove to develop their own Macedonian nationality and consciousness. More and more cases are reported where the Macedonians claimed a distinct nationality as direct descendents of the ancient Macedonians and Alexander the Great. The Macedonian rebellions against the Turks in the 19th century, the deeds of the Macedonian intellectuals, and the Macedonian folk and literature have brought up this strong national awakening.

    12. Having open appetite to Macedonian land, Bulgaria did everything to suppress the development of the Macedonian national awakening and many Macedonians who fought against the Turks and sought refuge ended up in Bulgarian prisons, or were betrayed and surrendered to the Turks. Such examples were Alexander of Ohrid, father Theodosie of Skopje who attempted to form an independent Macedonian church, Gotse Delchev, Jane Sandanski, Gjorche Petrov, and countless others.

    13. That the Bulgarians tried everything to falsify the history of the Macedonians we find proof in the recent discovery of a stone inscription which states that the Macedonians of the 10th century and Czar Samoil were Bulgarians. However, the stone was examined by the Bulgarian Academy of Sciences in Sofia and its director himself declared that the inscription was a 19th century Bulgarian fabrication. Thus we have obtained a clear proof that the Bulgarians have been falsifying the history of the Macedonians for more then a century. If Tsar Samoil was indeed a "Bulgarian", there would have been no need to use falsifications in order to show that. It is obvious that the falsifiers were aware that that neither Samoil nor the Macedonians were Bulgarian and with that in mind they created the forgery. Needless to say, modern historiography calls the Bulgarian claims that Samoil was a Bulgarian - absurd.

    14. Yet the Bulgarians also contradict themselves in their claim that the Macedonians were "Bulgarians". There are Bulgarian historians like Draganov and Slaveykov, who even since the 19th century admitted that the Macedonians were not Bulgarians but a distinct nation with its own language, culture, and ethnicity.

    15. In 1913 Bulgaria, and her allies Serbia and Greece, with the help of more then 100,000 Macedonians who fought along these three armies, drove the Turks out of Macedonia, but Macedonia did not gain its freedom. Instead, the Balkan countries partitioned Macedonia among themselves and Bulgaria occupied 13% of the whole territory, called Pirin Macedonia.

    16. Bulgaria now begun an open assimilatory politics against the Macedonians, just like Greece did in Aegean Macedonia, and proclaimed that the Macedonians of Pirin are Bulgarians. Any opposition was brutally suppressed.

    17. After helping the Turks to occupy the Balkans in the 14th century, the Bulgarians again sided with the dark side in World War II (1941-1945). As fascist allies of Hitler, the Bulgarian armies occupied the previously occupied Greek and Serbian parts of Macedonia.

    18. But the Macedonians defeated the Bulgarian fascist troops and after the war, the government of Bulgaria on August 9, 1946 officially recognized the Macedonian nation and the right of the Pirin part of Macedonia to be attached to the People’s Republic of Macedonia.

    19. The Macedonians in Bulgaria exist as separate nationality on all Bulgarian censuses after the end of World War II. The demography data from 1946 revealed that the majority of the population in the Pirin part of Macedonia declared itself as Macedonian in a free census. A period of cultural autonomy and affirmation of the Macedonian national and cultural values had begun. The Macedonian literary language and the national history have been introduced into the educational process. Almost 32,000 pupils were included into the teaching of Macedonian. In 1947 in Gorna Djumaja (Blagoevgrad nowadays) the first Macedonian bookstore and reading room were opened, as well as the Regional Macedonian National Theater. The newspapers in Macedonian such as "Pirinsko delo", "Nova Makedonija", "Mlad Borec" etc. were also published. Literary circles and cultural and artistic associations were founded contributing to the spreading of the Macedonian culture. In the Bulgarian census of 1956, the majority of the population of Pirin again declared itself Macedonian.

    20. However, since 1956 Bulgaria has altered her attitude, negating again the existence of the Macedonian nation and forbidding the free expression of Macedonian nationality and language. The idea was enforced and as result, in the census of 1965, the number of Macedonians suddenly dropped to only 8,750 and in the district of Blagoevgrad which previously had the highest percentage of Macedonians, it was "mysteriously" less than 1%. Yet the Macedonians in Bulgaria begun organizing themselves and in 1989, United Macedonian Organization - Ilinden (OMO Ilinden) was formed, demanding cultural and national autonomy for the Macedonians in Pirin.

    21. Like Greece, Bulgaria stands accused by the international human rights organizations Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International for denying the Macedonians of Pirin their basic human rights to identify themselves as Macedonians. Nevertheless it is recognized that the Macedonians exist in Bulgaria with their own national consciousness and consist a sizable minority. They organize themselves despite the pressures and intimidation of the Bulgarian police, and continue to peacefully demand their rights which the Bulgarians stripped them off since their army took over Pirin Macedonia in 1913.

    22. The Bulgarians and the Macedonians also defer in physical appearance. The typical Mongolic features among the modern Bulgarians are absent among the Macedonians. The ancient Bulgar personal names still common today among the modern Bulgarians are absent among the Macedonians. The Bulgarian and Macedonian folklore and music are much different and none of the Bulgarian khans or other rulers have ever been celebrated among the Macedonians. In contrast stories about the Macedonian kings Alexander the Great and Philip II, and the Macedonian Slav Czar Samoil dominate the Macedonian folklore, music, and dance. Finally, the fact that the Bulgarians have kept their ancient Asiatic name, and the Macedonians have kept their ancient European name speaks clearly that they are aware of the fact they are two different nations with two different ethnic roots.

    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SAY HE WAS GREEK?
    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SAY HIS BLOOD IS GREEK?
    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SAY HE SPOKE ONLY GREEK?
    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SAY HIS VISIONS WERE GREEK?
    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SAY WE GREEKS SHOULD NOT BE SLAVES TO BARBARIANS?
    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SAY HIS FATHER WAS GREEK?
    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS FIGHT FOR THE GLORY of GREECE?

    WHY DID MEGAS? ALEXANDROS TAKE REVENGE FOR PERSIAN INVASION IN HIS MOTHERLAND GREECE?
    WHY WAS MEGAS ALEXANDROS PROUD OF HIS MOTHERLAND GREECE?
    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS BUILD GREEK CITIES ONLY?
    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SPREAD GREEK LANGUAGE ONLY?
    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SPREAD GREEK CULTURE ONLY?
    WHY DID MEGAS ALEXANDROS SPREAD GREEK JUSTICE ONLY?
    WHY WAS HE PROUD FOR his GREEK ANCESTORS?

    Language issues: Different language?
    Here is a lost of 8 quotes from ancient documents about the Greek language of Macedonians. Ancient Literary sources about ancient Macedonian language being a Greek dialect

    But since it’s hard to convince you, let’s see what the Persians were telling about Macedonians.
    Persian Testimonies about ancient Macedonian Ethnicity

    Culture issues: So, that Macedonian culture was different and superior to others. BUT, unfortunately they left us nothing to read or what they left us is unreadable. What a pity...

    Macedonians fought Greeks? : So, is this a proof of something? Then what the domination of Spartans over Athenians proves? That one of them was non-Greek?

    Since you are in a search of traitors (Somewere I read Gligorof is among them) I will present you a list of more traitors (academics of your country) that say about the Greek origin of Macedonians (HOW DARE THEY?) :
    Hellenism of ancient Macedonian from FYROM sources

    And please, stop mentioning that genetics research. Cant you understand you dig your own grave (Maybe you post it by mistake because all you did was a copy-paste).
    Fyrom's lies over Slavic populations genetics Part I
    Fyrom's lies over Slavic populations genetics Part II

    To both sides: keep arguing and watch your neighbourhood become dominated by thousands Chinese people who refuse to learn your language, who take over your businesses, or refuse to even say hello to you.
    Keep arguing and watch Africans change the nature of your cities, Russian mafias buy up your buildings and your politicians.
    Keep arguing and you will turn to dust.
    Immigrants take over where the system is deteriorating (no offence intended).

    Because you Greeks are so shore that Macedonians and Bulgarians are same people, and you think that Macedonian language is actually Bulgarian language, be my guests and go to this pages. You will see that in the Bulgarian alphabet there is 6 letters that we don’t have and they have 30 leters, in the Macedonian language there is 7 letters that Bulgarians don’t have and we have 31 letters. Plus we have so many words which are different and not even close to each other. In the Greek alphabet from 24 letters there is 16 letters that are written and pronounced same as in the “Slavic Languages.

    http://www.macedoniadirect.com/azbuka.htm

    http://www.kirildouhalov.net/language/alphabet.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alphabet
    So you cant thell that Macedonian is a "Bulgarian dialect". It's just crasy.

    GIVE US A BREAK WITH YOUR LANGUAGE!
    My wife is Ukrainian and although her language even more different than the Bulgarian, she can understand most of your writing! She only faces some difficulties with your speech but this is expected! She was raised thousands km away!

    Or maybe you believe that when you visit Bulgaria, you will need dictionary or a translator? :D

    Oh I agree Alphavitas, but you should say that to your precious Dora and Kostas, or maybe to their fathers who were the masterminds of this “issue”. You could leave us to live in peace, and build our good neighbouring connections and future with you. We hade the same name before our independence, and that was not bothering you. You were not calling us Skopjanians, your embassy in Skopje was called EMBASSY OF GREECE IN SOCIALISTIC REPUBLIC OF MACEDONIA….. We and you could be much richer as a country and as people, because we all know how strategic positions we both have on the Balkans. Instead you (your politicians) chose to create a “problem”, chose to spend BILLIONS on propaganda and sponsorship of foreign politicians for support, chose to be our godfather an to tell us how we can be called, and with all that bringing both countries in so much depths, poverty, EU loans, and the worst, they managed to turn 13 million people (2 mill. In Macedonia and 11 mill. In Greece) in to a enemies living 17 years of their lives full with fear (that we will take your territories), anger, hate and racism for each other. BRAVO GREECE. Maybe some day you will see that we are all (including you) just puppets in the hands of your manipulative political families-Mitsotakis, Karamanlis and Papandreou!
    We say: WITH THIS KIND OF FRIENDS, I RATHER HAVE ENEMIES!

    THE TRUTH - Вистина!

    3 languages

    ENGLISH – BULGARIAN - ?????

    Water - Вода - Вода
    Earth - Земя - Земја
    Sun - Слънце - Сонце
    Love - Любов - Љубов
    Metre - Метър - Метар
    Universe - Вселена - Вселена
    Matter - Материя - Материја
    Sex - Пол - Пол
    Homosexuality - Хомосексуалност - Хомосексуалност
    Culture - Култура - Култура
    Human - Човек - Човек
    Sound - Звук - Звук
    Liquid - Течност - Течност
    Square - Квадрат - Квадрат
    Science - Наука - Наука
    Physics - Физика - Физика
    Summer - Лято - Лето
    Mountain - Планина - Планина
    Philosophy - Философия - Философија
    Anthropology - Антропология - Антропологија
    Language - Език - Јазик
    Gas - Газ - Гас
    Sociology - Социология - Социологија
    Greek language - Гръцки език - Грчки јазик
    Greek alphabet - Гръцка азбука - Грчка азбука
    Bulgarian language - Български език - Бугарски јазик
    Star - Звезда - Ѕвезда
    Society - Общество - Општество
    Cell - Клетка - Клетка
    Bacteria - Бактерии - Бактерија
    Romance languages - Романски езици - Романски јазици
    Serbia - Сърбия - Србија
    Old Church Slavonic - Старобългарски език - Старословенски јазик
    Marriage - Брак - Брак
    Animal - Животни - Животни
    Mineral Минерал Минерал

    Bulgarian and Makedonski languages are mutually understandable with many similarities, but differences were introduced after 1945; now they are considered separate. Greece also has Slavic idioms around Florina and Kastoria. Those dialects are different from the official Makedonski language, just as Makedonski is different from the official Bulgarian language.

    What are you trying to prove to me Helinas? That you admitt that Macedonian and Bulgarian have A LOT of different letters? So what if we have some simular words? We dont denie that we accepted Slavic language.
    For a change, please compare Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian and Montenegrian language. The alphabet is 100% same, the words are 100% same, the languages are 100% same. So why you dont object the name of that languages?
    What do you have so much against Macedonia and Macedonian language?
    Also i can tell you a lot of words that are same at Macedonian and Greek:
    Kremidi-Kromid
    Tomates-Domati
    Maruli-Marula
    Tsai- Chaj
    Piperia-Piperka
    Paputci- Paputci
    Kalces-Kalci
    Aerodromio-Aerodrom
    Krevati-Krevet
    Maidano-Magdanoz
    Spinaki-Spanak
    Fustani-Fustan
    Sakaki-Sako
    Porta-Porta
    Portokali-Portokal
    Lemoni-Limon
    Giaourti-Yogurt
    Malidzano-Malidzano
    Fotografia-Fotografija
    Molivi-Moliv
    Diavolos-Giavol
    Angelos-Angel
    Skeleto-Skelet
    Antika-Antika
    Banio-Banja
    Mpoja-Boja
    Tzami-Tzamija
    Cigaro-Cigara
    Keramida-Keramida
    Keftes-Kofte......
    Now what, does this mean that Greek is also Slavic language?

    Whole the world take words from Hellenic language!

    We all know that...

    The most of the words of your text is Hellenic!!!

    Your language is Servo-Bulgarian

    yOU ARE Slav.....

    :-))))

    And you are a lepric freak, SKASE pushto kalamara, ANATHEMA SOU!
    You are not interesting at all.Oldfashioned brainwashed rasistic pig.Burn in HELL!

    To anonymous 22:38

    Many common words! I assume that if I visit your country I will be able to communicate with your people and read all signs without any serious problem! Like Bulgarians do when they visit your country and like you do when you visit their country!
    Am I right?

    Does the amount of common words define the relation between two languages?

    You like to hide beyond small details when the truth is that Bulgarians understand your language as Greeks understand Cyprus Greek or Cretan Greek. That’s why Bulgarians don’t recognize the existence of Macedonian language, simply because it’s their language.

    Cyprus GREEK and Cretan GREEK are ALL SAME LANGUAGES!!!!! Halooooo! Dont you understand? Macedonian language and Bulgarian language ARE DIFFERENT LANGUAGES with DIFFERENT ALPHABETS and A LOT OF DIFFERENT WORDS!!!! Yes all Slavic Lanfuages ARE SIMULAR with eachother but THEU ARE DIFFERENT. Wow can you be shore that Macedonian is actually Bulgarian? Why not Bulgarian is ACTUALLY MACEDONIAN? Or maybe they are both Russian. or Ukranian or....? There is a enormous difference between DIALECT (Cyprus, Crete...) and LANGUAGE!
    Because you so called Greeks know everything, then why dont you have problem with the languages that the people in Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia and Montenegro are speaking? They are ALL EXACTLY SAME languages. But the Serbs are saying they speak Serbian, the Croats Croatian, Bosnians - Bosnian.......
    Stop just BELIEVING to everything that your racist politicians say! Think a bit first! You all are living in DARK. Turn around you. There is other people living on this areas. Stop dreaming that the world started with you and only you. With this you just show to the world how pathetic and limited you are!

    And what if I tell you that there are more differences between Greek and Cyprus Greek than Bulgarian and your “Macedonian”?

    And how you define difference? You can easily get a dialect and turn it (or baptize it) into a “different” language!

    So, the question is who made the first Slavic language? Who said the first Slavic words ever. Ancient Macedonians? Definitely not! Who then?

    Why don’t have problems with the other languages because they don’t mess up with our history. Serbs never claimed that Parthenon was their structure or that Crete is an occupied Croatian island!

    Greeks, at least the ones who wrote these e-mails, seem to talk in black and white clear cut terms about what happened 1,500 years ago, forgetting that from then until 1913 there were no borders between present day Greece and Macedonia. Whoever invaded Macedonia surely did not spare Greece. So if we are to believe mainstream history then it should be well known to these Greeks that the Slavs who invaded Macedonia also invaded Greece down to its deepest southern fringes. So if the modern Macedonians are Slavs, then so are the modern Greeks.
    History also tells us that the present Greek-Macedonian border was erected after the Balkan Wars as a result of the 1913 Treaty of Bucharest. This is simply an artificial border that never existed before 1913. So how can modern Greeks claim that what is south of this border is "Pure Greek" and what's north of it is "Slav"? If we are to accept this "Greek claim" then we must also accept the idea that "pure Greeks" and "Slavs" co-existed in a borderless region for 1,500 years side by side without any contact between them. We must also ignore history and the fact that Greece became a nation state for the first time in 1829 and on its territory lived Slavs, Albanians, Vlachs, Turks and a variety of other ethnicities.
    Our internet warrior Greeks seem to have forgotten that modern Greece annexed 51% of Macedonia fully intact and loaded with "Slav" speaking Macedonians as recently as 1913 and those Macedonians whom they call Greeks today were certainly not Greeks then.
    From the e-mails above one gets the impression that some Greeks want the Macedonians to go away. There is no room for Macedonians in the Balkans. Greeks see their world in black and white, "pure Greeks" and "Slavs" even though it is clear both entities are made from the same raw materials which begs the question "how do Greeks distinguish between "pure Greeks" on one hand and "Slavs" on the other? What is the criterion that distinguishes these groups from one another? More importantly, why is one group the "pure Greeks" deserving of the full Macedonian heritage with full rights and privileges while the other group the "Slavs" are deserving of NONE and have no rights or privileges whatsoever. Are they not both indigenous people of the same land?
    By their own testimonies the Greeks admit that the so called "Slavs" have been living in Macedonia since the 6th century AD, that's 1,500 years or equivalent of 75 generations. How long do a people have to live on a land before it can call itself indigenous? How long must a people live on a land to have rights? More importantly, why do Greeks believe Macedonian lands belong to them and not to the people that lived on them for 75 generations? Besides how can these Greeks justify that these lands belong to them? Do they have deeds or proof that they are the true inheritors? How do we know that they are not imposters and the "REAL" swindlers of the Macedonian lands and heritage? Have these Greeks never bothered to ask themselves (a) what gives them the right to these lands and (b) why are Macedonians excluded from these rights? Have they never bothered to ask (a) what makes them "pure Greeks" and their neighbours "Slavs" and (b) why they have full rights and privileges and the so called "Slavs" have none, not even the most basic human rights?
    THE TRUTH:
    The truth is Macedonians are not "Slavs", they are Macedonians. They speak the Macedonian language practice Macedonian traditions, have their own folklore and enjoy their own Macedonian music. Unlike the Greeks who have an imposed language, the Macedonian language is the mother tongue of the Macedonian people which has been with them for at least 75 generations. The Greek language, on the other hand, was imposed on the Greek people after Greece became a nation state for the first time in 1829.
    The reason Greeks call Macedonians "Slav" is because in their minds "Slavs" are apparently an unworthy species of human that does not deserve to grace Macedonian lands or have any human rights. This goes back to the "Aryan" haydays when it was popular to abuse people for various reasons, reminiscent of what the Nazis did to the Jews. Even though this type of practice is no longer popular and most of its practitioners fell off the "Aryan" bandwagon a long time ago, it appears no one bothered to tell Greece. So to this day some Greeks continue to practice "Macedonian bashing" like it's still in style!
    If you have been reading these types of articles by now you would know that the so called "Greek nation" is nothing more than a politically manufactured entity. It is a real shame that the Macedonian people who belong to a unique, rich and ancient culture are being punished for being "real" and all this is done for the sake of propagating another BIG Greek lie.

    "Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the Ancient Greeks"?????
    (The greatest victims of Greek lies are the Greeks themselves)

    How can a region in the Balkans where modern Greece is located today, which has been open to a multitude of invasions, conquests and settlements, remain homogeneous and untouched for two thousand seven hundred years?
    Ironically, as the Greeks claim, how can modern Macedonia, a region neighbouring modern Greece be so heterogeneous that it has completely lost its original identity?
    These are questions that every Greek should be asking!
    Ever since Philip II of Macedonia conquered the ancient City States at the conclusion of the battle of Chaeronea in 338 BC, the region south of Olympus has been without borders and open to all kinds of invasions and barbarian settlements.
    THE BIG GREEK LIE: "Modern Greeks are direct descendents of the ancient Greeks"
    There were no "Ancient Greeks" since the word "Greek" was not coined until after the Roman conquests, approximately 600 years after the establishment of the City States and approximately 150 years after they were conquered by the Macedonians.
    It is also well known that the ancient City States were never united politically and never established themselves as a single state. In fact they existed politically independent from one another and fought each other for economic dominance of the region.
    The name "Greece" was imposed on the modern Greek Kingdom by the Great Powers Britain, France and Russia. Modern Greeks call themselves Hellenes (Ellines) and their state Hellas (Ellas).
    By using the name "Greek" to refer to both the ancient and modern people, the Greek state falsely implies descent for the modern Greeks from the ancients.
    By using the name "Greece" to refer to both the ancient and modern states, the Greek State is falsely implying;
    (1) continuity between the ancient City States and modern Greece, and
    (2) that there was some sort of political unity between the ancient City States themselves where one did not exist..
    In reality the words "Greece" and "Greek" were popularized by modern 19th century writers. There are no ancient maps or references with the words "Greece".
    The Romans may have made some references to the ancient people living in Sicily as "Grecos" but they referred to the region south of Olympus as Achaia.
    During the Ottoman era the people living south of Olympus called themselves Romeos (Romans).
    Greece is a newly created state which never existed before the 19th century. The Kingdom of Greece, occupying the region of Morea, present day Peloponnesus, was created for the first time in 1829. Between 1829 and 1912 the Greeks enlarged their territory to present day Greece, by conquering Epirus, Thessaly and 51% of Macedonia.
    At its inception Greece stated out with a small population of less than one million people, most of whom were Albanians, Slavs and Vlahs with a small minority of other ethnicities. By the time Greece conquered Epirus and Thessaly, its population grew to three times its original size. In 1907 it registered a population of 2,600,000. After it conquered Macedonia and exchanged populations with Turkey, its population tripled. In 1928 Greece registered 6,200,000 people. 1,100,000 of them were Christians, refugees from Asia Minor.
    After the Treaty of Lausanne in July 1923, and after the population exchanges with Turkey, Greece declared itself homogenous consisting of 100% pure Greeks with a very small Muslim but ethnically Greek population.
    It is estimated that after Macedonia was conquered, occupied and had some of its population evicted, more than one million Macedonians still remained and were included among the Greeks.
    According to Greece however, there were no non-Greeks left in Macedonia after its population exchanges. Also, according to Greece, the ancient Macedonians were extinct, killed off by the Slavs around the 6th century AD during the so-called Slav invasions.
    So the question that begs to be asked here is, "What nationality were these million or so people who remained in Macedonia and became part of Greece?" Many Greeks would argue that they were Bulgarians!
    If that were the case, then how can the modern Greeks claim purity and homogeneity if at least 16% of its population in 1928 was non-Greek? What about its Vlah, Slav, Albanian and Turkish elements? Clearly they are not Greeks, let alone being direct descendents of the ancient Greeks?
    Even this small argument shows that there is something "fishy" about these Greek claims.
    For over a century and a half Greek State institutions, organizations and individuals have been making unproven and unfounded allegations that the modern Greeks are direct descendents of the ancients. To this day they have shown no evidence to prove their claims. In fact the opposite is true. There is ample evidence that proves that this particular modern Greek claim is an outright BIG Greek lie.
    This exact issue was tackled by Historian John Shea in chapter 4 of The Great Ethnic Mix of Greece, pages 77 to 96, in his book "Macedonia and Greece, The Struggle to Define a New Balkan Nation". Among other things, John Shea proves that even the ancient people were not homogeneous.
    "It has been estimated that in classical times the number of slaves in Attica was roughly equal to the number of free inhabitants, or around 100,000. In Sparta there was an even greater proportion of slaves, and most of them, the helots, were Messenians. While the slaves of Athens were a wide racial mix and therefore less likely to unite on the basis of a common language, these Messenian helots of Sparta all spoke Greek, and had a kind of group self-consciousness. Thus they presented 'special problems of security for their Spartan masters, whose numbers were constantly on the decline.' Changes in the ethnic composition of Greek city-states are illustrated by the comments about the case of Piso. Piso, who had been the recipient of an unhelpful decision by a vote of the Athenian city assembly, 'made a violent speech in which he said that the latter-day Athenians had no right to identify themselves with the great Athenians of the days of Pericles, Demosthenes, Aeschylus, and Plato. The ancient Athenians had been extirpated by repeated wars and massacres and these were mere mongrels, degenerates, and the descendants of slaves. He said that any Roman who flattered them as if they were the legitimate heirs of those ancient heroes was lowering the dignity of the Roman name.' Such historical ideas make it clear that even two thousand years ago the notion of ethnic purity amongst the Greeks was difficult to sustain. The ethnic mix continued over the next two thousand years. As Nicol has observed, 'The ancient Greeks were, after all, of very mixed ancestry; and there can be no doubt that the Byzantine Greeks, both before and after the Slav occupation, were even more heterogenous'." (Pages 83 and 84, John Shea, Macedonia and Greece, The Struggle to Define a New Balkan Nation)
    And there you have it!
    THE TRUTH: The modern Greeks are not only NOT direct descendents of the ancients, but their Greekness is a myth, a modern 19th century creation.

    "Greeks are Hellenes"?????
    (Modern Greeks believe they are Hellenes)

    According to the Columbia Encyclopedia, Hellenism is "the culture, ideals, and pattern of life of ancient Greece in classical times. It usually means primarily the culture of ATHENS and the related cities in the Age of Pericles [495-429 BC]. The term is also applied to the ideals of later writers and thinkers who draw their inspiration from ancient Greece. Frequently it is contrasted with Hebraism - Hellenism then meaning pagan joy, freedom, and love of life as contrasted with the austere morality and monotheism of the Old Testament. The Hellenic period came to an end with the conquest of Alexander the Great in the 4th century BC. It was succeeded by the Hellenistic civilization." Page 930, Columbia Encyclopedia, Third Edition 1963, New York and London.
    If you ask a Modern Greek today to identify his or her "nationality" they will say they are "Greek". If you ask them what is that in "Greek"? They will say "Ellinas" or "Ellinida". There is no word for "Greek" in the Greek vocabulary. If there is (Graekos) it is rarely used and unknown to most Greeks.
    According to most modern Greeks today, "Greek" and "Ellines" are synonymous. In other words a "Hellene is a native of either ancient or modern Greece; a Greek".
    If I am to understand this correctly "a Hellene is a person who shares the culture, ideals, and pattern of life of ancient Greece in classical times" and "who is a native of either ancient or modern Greece". In other words, again if I understand this correctly, any person of any ethnicity who is native of either ancient or modern Greece and who shares the culture, ideals and pattern of life of ancient Greece in classical times qualifies to be a Hellene.
    Can a person be a Hellene and something else at the same time? According to Modern Greek standards, NO! One cannot be a Hellene and a Turk at the same time; according to some Greeks, why would they want to? "A Hellene is a superior being!" Also, according to some Greeks, "to be a Hellene one must be a descendant of the ancient Hellenes".
    Obviously there are people today who call themselves "Hellenes" or more accurately, "Ellines". My question here is "who are these people and how did they become the Hellenes?"
    Modern Greeks today consider themselves to be the inheritors of the ancient Greek and Byzantine civilizations and cultures. Historically, the self-perception of the Greeks and the definition of Greekness have varied, but with the emergence and consolidation of the nation-state, from the late 18th century, Greekness was redefined along the lines of what some people call romantic nationalism.
    Romantic nationalism is the form of nationalism in which the state derives its political legitimacy as an organic consequence of the unity of those it governs. This includes, depending on the particular manner of practice, the language, race, culture, religion and customs of the "nation" in its primal sense of those who were "born" within its culture. This form of nationalism arose in reaction to dynastic or imperial hegemony, which assessed the legitimacy of the state from the "top down", emanating from a monarch or other authority, which justified its existence. Such downward-radiating power might ultimately derive from God.
    Greece accepts all those who agree with this principle and rejects those who disagree.
    So what exactly is this principle and what are the criteria for belonging to it? Or, what is this club called "Hellas" and how does one sign up to join it?
    Is it ethnicity? Obviously not! Modern Greece is made up of Slav Speakers, Albanians, Vlachs, Turks, Christian Turks, Roma, etc.
    Is it the Christian Orthodox Religion? Obviously not, even though most conservative Greeks like it to be! The so-called ancient Hellenes were Pagan.
    So what exactly is a "Hellene" then in modern terms?
    A Modern Hellene is a person who has rejected his or her real ethnicity, forsaken his or her real culture for the sake of belonging to a "CLUB".
    A Modern Hellene or Modern Greek, since Hellene and Greek are synonymous, has abandoned reality and the truth for the sake of living an Idea.
    When Greece was coming together as a country for the first time in the early 1800's, ethnically it could not hold itself together because of the various ethnicities living together and pulling in different directions. It is well known and every Greek should know that the majority of their national heroes of the "Greek uprising" against the Turks were not Greeks. They were Albanians (Arvanites), Vlachs and Slav Speakers (mostly Macedonians).
    Even though there were many roads Greece could have taken during its national awakening it chose the road to "Hellenism". Unfortunately, appealing as it might have been to the Greek State it was destructive and devastating to the indigenous people of the region who are reeling from it to this day.
    Greece wiped out half a dozen natural cultures and vibrant languages for the sake of resurrecting something that had died two thousand five hundred years ago so that it could re-live the old glory days and satisfy the imperial ambitions of the Great Powers of the day.
    THE TRUTH
    The truth is "there are no Hellenes living today", and as per the Columbia Encyclopedia definition, they died, came to an end with the conquest of Alexander the Great in the 4th century BC.
    You Greeks can all pretend to be "Hellenes" but the only ones you're fooling are yourselves, which is fine by me. Unfortunately when you claim that the Macedonians, a real, vibrant living people don't exist, I take offense to that.
    When you adamantly insist that Macedonia belongs to Greece, a group of people who fabricated their own identity, and not to the real Macedonians, I take offence to that.
    When Macedonians are murdered, sent to prison, exiled from their homes and lands, forbidden to speak their mother tongue, not being recognized as people in their native lands, for the sake of propagating a Greek lie, I take offence to that.
    When Macedonian names and toponyms are erased, Macedonian Bibles and tombstones eradicated, and peoples' identities stripped from them for the sake of creating "Hellenes" an identity that died many eons ago, I take offense to that too.
    So please take a good look at your creation and tell me that "Hellenism" is not another BIG Greek lie!

    Now, let’s see who is living in a box and who is not…

    It’s true that some of the Greeks deny you the right on everything related to Macedonia. I am not one of them and there are plenty that also are not among them. You are right that people living in the area of 75generation can have the right of using that areas name.

    Let me use your arguments:
    So if the modern Macedonians are Slavs, then so are the modern Greeks
    Before numerous posts, your people characterized us as descendants of the Turks. Also your famous (and invalid) genetic research characterized as Ethiopians. Now, we are also Slavs? What’s the possibility of you being Greeks?

    So how can modern Greeks claim that what is south of this border is "Pure Greek" and what's north of it is "Slav"?
    I wont fall in the trap of pure Greek because nobody can prove his purity. But, I assume that very easily separate what is on the north side and what is on the south side of our borders by examining the language they speak.
    Globalization was not so common until the last decades, so the language that the people were speaking was also defining their nationality. Today, you and I may speak fluently English, among other languages, but in the past it was not common. So, on the north side of our borders there are people that speak a Slavic language and on the south side of your borders there are people speaking Greek language. Any arguments on that?

    Back in 1913, Macedonia was loaded of Greeks, Bulgarians, Jews, Turks and more. Most of them were living in this land for many generations and definitely they all have the right to call themselves Macedonians. But the Greeks were speaking Greek (or a Greek dialect), the Bulgarians were speaking Bulgarian (or a Bulgarian dialect) and so on.


    How long do a people have to live on a land before it can call itself indigenous?….
    Who said you are not? Not me. Not the Greeks. What we say is that you are unrelated with the ancient Macedonians. The Slavs appeared in the Balkans at the time you mention but this doesn’t mean that they eliminated everybody else.
    Greeks believe that Greek Macedonia belongs to.. the Greeks. Your part of Macedonia is… yours! If we just talk about the land then everything is arranged. You have your land and we have ours.

    So, some answers to your questions:
    a) Nobody gives us the rights to your land. We have our land and you have yours.
    b) You are not excluded from your rights on your land. In the same way that we are not excluded from the rights of our land.
    c) There are no pure Greeks and not pure Macedonians, Russians, Americans or Italians. Nobody is pure. Everybody is pure.
    d) What are the most basic human rights that we deny from you?


    THE TRUTH:
    The truth is that “Macedonians” genetically and mentally are Slavs.
    They are speaking a 100% Slavic language for the last 1500 years. Genetically, (since they accept they results of that genetical reseach) they share the same genes as the rest of the slavs.
    The Greek language existed for thousands of years and became official language of the Greek state at 1829.
    Our Slav neighbors like to believe that their superior language managed to exist for 1500 years, even after 400years of Turkish occupations, but our weak language didn’t? Get serious!

    The reason that Greeks call Macedonians Slav is because they are Slavs. Because they speak a Slavic language and because they are related to other Slavs. In our minds slavs are people that speak slav. Nothing more.

    The reason that Macedonias don’t like to be called Slav is because they desperately seek a cultural identity that will define them in time. It’s important for their existence. They couldn’t be Bulgarians because there is a Bulgarian state. They couldn’t be Greeks because there is a Greek state. So, let’s be Macedonians!

    Your arguments on the rest of your posts are simply amazing!!!!
    Your country with history less than 2 decades has a unique and rich ancient culture and that comes from ancient times!
    And we, the Greeks, we are created only at 1829 and have no right on the Hellenic inheritance. No Hellines are living today (somehow, all of them disappeared in time) but the Great SLAV Macedonians manage to exist????

    AND YOU CALL US RACISTS ? ? ? ?

    Dear Michaelos, you said: So, the question is who made the first Slavic language? Who said the first Slavic words ever. Ancient Macedonians? Definitely not! Who then?
    I agree 100%. You can NOT say who made it first or who use it first. THAT ‘S WHY you CANT SAY that Macedonian is Bulgarian dialect?
    1. We all know that Kiril and Metodij made our language. They were from Thessaloniki. Were they Greeks? NO! Why not? Because ig they were Greeks, WHY the need of making new language. They would speek Greek and would live happily ever after. Were they Bulgarians? NO! Why not? Because Thessaloniki was never under Bulgarian ocupation, and there was no Bulgarians there. BUT there vas PLENTY of MACEDONIANS! (There still ARE!)
    2. Nomater who they were, lets see how was the language spreading. From Thessaloniki upwards. That means that it is very possible Bulgarian to be MACEDONIAN DIALECT!!!!!!

    1. Cyril was baptized as Konstantinos. Their father was Greek military man and their mother was of Slavic background. Both were born in Thessaloniki, educated in Constantinople (or Istanbul if you want to satisfy your Turkish allies) where they took Byzantine education.
    So Cyril and Methodios were ideal for their mission, which was to spread Orthodoxy : They were Greeks, they were educated and they had Slav background, knowing how to communicate with the Slavs.
    And something more…
    Cyril and Methodios did not create your language. They created your alphabet and the basic rules for writing for you existing language. I hope you don’t think that your ancestors were speechless, before 9th century.
    Some proofs of the Greek origin of the two monks you can find here:
    Sources on St Cyril and Methodius Greek Ethnicity

    In Thessaloniki there were living Bulgarians and Greeks. Both of them had the right to call themselves Macedonians, so in this point of view, Cyril and Methodious were not only Greeks but also Macedonians! So, yes, there are still many Macedonians! Thank you for recognizing that!

    2. You are right. But you miss something. Macedonia was never a country, until the late 20th century. The first that they adopt the new writing was the Bulgarians and then the rest of the Slavs. So, the writing was spreading from Thessaloniki upwards but the language reached Thessaloniki from the North.

    michaos go back wher you come out you piece of shit

    so you admit that there WAS "slavic" people living in Northen Greece? And you admit that THERE STILL IS? And you admit that they WERE NOT PURE GREEKS? (and by language I meant modern language-alphabet, my mistake, sorry). So all this PROVES that ALL of us here at the Balkans ARE MIXED WITH EACHOTHER! THERE IS NO "PURE" NATIONS. Thank you for admiting. WE NEVER SAID THAT WE ARE "PURE", YOU DO. We dont have problem with the fact that we have mixed genes (maybe part of them are from the antic, part of them slavic...). We have nothing to hide. I am maried with a British. That means that my children have even more mixed genes. You said that you are maried with an Ucranian women. That makes your children mixed as well. And now try to calculate how many people have mixed over the centuries. So that is why your theory DOES NOT WORK!!!!! And YES ABSOLUTELY, WE ALL HAVE THE RIGHT TO CALL OUR SELVES MACEDONIANS!!!!!!!!

    You thank me for admitting the obvious? Thank you for thanking me (I think I will be chased by Greek nationalisting because I came too close with you!)

    But excuse me, why my theory does not work? (And what theory are you talking about?)

    You never said that you are pure? Excuse me but what’s all about that genetic research? Also, don’t say that you never said about your purity. Maybe you, personally, never accepted something so stupid but be sure that many of your people believe that (as many of us believe it). I faced it many times (from both sides). Some times, your people behave like Alexander the Great was his/her grant mother.

    And last… about Macedonians…
    So, we all have the right to call ourselves Macedonians. Now what? How I am supposed to call my son (when I got one!) Macedonian? Greek Macedonian or Aegean Macedonian? And what I am supposed to answer when he ask me : Why you call me Macedonian? I heard at school that Macedonia is a country at the north of us and they speak a different language.

    Shouldn’t all this be better defined?
    Having a country named “Macedonia” makes so much confusion on history and territories. Since we share Macedonia (not mentioning that our part of Macedonia is the BIG part) I think we should name our lands in a way that wont be offending for the other.

    WHY CITIZENS OF FYROM HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ANCIENT MACEDONIANS AND WHY ANCIENT MACEDONIANS WERE A PURE GREEK ETHNOS

    1.Ancient Macedonians were a conglomerate of Greek tribes and clans constituting a conservative monarchistic military democracy , essentially an evolved extension of Dorian and on longer period, Indo-European system of social architecture. 2.Ancient Macedonians were long time before Phillip and Alexander considered Greeks by other Greeks and they were allowed to participate in the Olympic Games, an event in which only ethnic Greeks were allowed to participate.Persian used the term Yauna Takabara(Greek wearing a hat) for Macedonians already in the V century BCE 3.Dozens of epigraphic objects predating the epoch of Phillip and Alexander show clearly a Greek language of North-Western type. 4. The names of Macedonians were not an import from the south since there is a marked deficit of names of eminent Athenians and other Greeks south from Macedonia 5. From its prehistoric inception, Macedonia was an area which was for the most part, even more restrictive in size than todays Greek Macedonia.Only much later lower 15% of today's FYROM came within the borders of Macedonia, probably without significant ethnic changes among native Paeonian stock, situated from ancient times North-Eastern from Macedonians, bordering on Thracians in Eastern FYROM, Dardanians in the line of Tetovo-Skoplje-Kumanovo and Illyrians proper from Ohrid to Kičevo and Debar.As you may see, FYROM was essentially never Macedonia neither ethnically nor politically Ταινίες: 6.Expansion of Macedonia under Alexander the Great shows progressive patronage of Hellenic way of life, culture and civilization.The entire enormous opus of linguistic material on three continents was exclusively in Greek.Isnt it strange that the dominating Macedonian element, if it was ethnically of alien nature vis-a-vis Greeks, did not leave hundreds, if not thousands monuments in its alleged separate, non-Greek language as a sign of its prestige?From those times we have testimonies of the historians about Hellenic ethnic identity of chief historical protagonist among Macedonians. 10.Analysis of the entire corpus of Macedonian-authored inscriptions reveals a form of Greek which is quite different from the Ionic dialects and which has self-developed Greek features , thus proving that the Greek language among Macedonians is not borrowing.
    :6.Expansion of Macedonia under Alexander the Great shows progressive patronage of Hellenic way of life, culture and civilization.The entire enormous opus of linguistic material on three continents was exclusively in Greek.Isnt it strange that the dominating Macedonian element, if it was ethnically of alien nature vis-a-vis Greeks, did not leave hundreds, if not thousands monuments in its alleged separate, non-Greek language as a sign of its prestige?From those times we have testimonies of the historians about Hellenic ethnic identity of chief historical protagonist among Macedonians.

    WHY CITIZENS OF FYROM HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ANCIENT MACEDONIANS AND WHY ANCIENT MACEDONIANS WERE A PURE GREEK ETHNOS

    1.Ancient Macedonians were a conglomerate of Greek tribes and clans constituting a conservative monarchistic military democracy , essentially an evolved extension of Dorian and on longer period, Indo-European system of social architecture. 2.Ancient Macedonians were long time before Phillip and Alexander considered Greeks by other Greeks and they were allowed to participate in the Olympic Games, an event in which only ethnic Greeks were allowed to participate.Persian used the term Yauna Takabara(Greek wearing a hat) for Macedonians already in the V century BCE 3.Dozens of epigraphic objects predating the epoch of Phillip and Alexander show clearly a Greek language of North-Western type. 4. The names of Macedonians were not an import from the south since there is a marked deficit of names of eminent Athenians and other Greeks south from Macedonia 5. From its prehistoric inception, Macedonia was an area which was for the most part, even more restrictive in size than todays Greek Macedonia.Only much later lower 15% of today's FYROM came within the borders of Macedonia, probably without significant ethnic changes among native Paeonian stock, situated from ancient times North-Eastern from Macedonians, bordering on Thracians in Eastern FYROM, Dardanians in the line of Tetovo-Skoplje-Kumanovo and Illyrians proper from Ohrid to Kičevo and Debar.As you may see, FYROM was essentially never Macedonia neither ethnically nor politically Ταινίες: 6.Expansion of Macedonia under Alexander the Great shows progressive patronage of Hellenic way of life, culture and civilization.The entire enormous opus of linguistic material on three continents was exclusively in Greek.Isnt it strange that the dominating Macedonian element, if it was ethnically of alien nature vis-a-vis Greeks, did not leave hundreds, if not thousands monuments in its alleged separate, non-Greek language as a sign of its prestige?From those times we have testimonies of the historians about Hellenic ethnic identity of chief historical protagonist among Macedonians. 10.Analysis of the entire corpus of Macedonian-authored inscriptions reveals a form of Greek which is quite different from the Ionic dialects and which has self-developed Greek features , thus proving that the Greek language among Macedonians is not borrowing.
    :6.Expansion of Macedonia under Alexander the Great shows progressive patronage of Hellenic way of life, culture and civilization.The entire enormous opus of linguistic material on three continents was exclusively in Greek.Isnt it strange that the dominating Macedonian element, if it was ethnically of alien nature vis-a-vis Greeks, did not leave hundreds, if not thousands monuments in its alleged separate, non-Greek language as a sign of its prestige?From those times we have testimonies of the historians about Hellenic ethnic identity of chief historical protagonist among Macedonians.

    WHY CITIZENS OF FYROM HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ANCIENT MACEDONIANS AND WHY ANCIENT MACEDONIANS WERE A PURE GREEK ETHNOS

    1.Ancient Macedonians were a conglomerate of Greek tribes and clans constituting a conservative monarchistic military democracy , essentially an evolved extension of Dorian and on longer period, Indo-European system of social architecture. 2.Ancient Macedonians were long time before Phillip and Alexander considered Greeks by other Greeks and they were allowed to participate in the Olympic Games, an event in which only ethnic Greeks were allowed to participate.Persian used the term Yauna Takabara(Greek wearing a hat) for Macedonians already in the V century BCE 3.Dozens of epigraphic objects predating the epoch of Phillip and Alexander show clearly a Greek language of North-Western type. 4. The names of Macedonians were not an import from the south since there is a marked deficit of names of eminent Athenians and other Greeks south from Macedonia 5. From its prehistoric inception, Macedonia was an area which was for the most part, even more restrictive in size than todays Greek Macedonia.Only much later lower 15% of today's FYROM came within the borders of Macedonia, probably without significant ethnic changes among native Paeonian stock, situated from ancient times North-Eastern from Macedonians, bordering on Thracians in Eastern FYROM, Dardanians in the line of Tetovo-Skoplje-Kumanovo and Illyrians proper from Ohrid to Kičevo and Debar.As you may see, FYROM was essentially never Macedonia neither ethnically nor politically Ταινίες: 6.Expansion of Macedonia under Alexander the Great shows progressive patronage of Hellenic way of life, culture and civilization.The entire enormous opus of linguistic material on three continents was exclusively in Greek.Isnt it strange that the dominating Macedonian element, if it was ethnically of alien nature vis-a-vis Greeks, did not leave hundreds, if not thousands monuments in its alleged separate, non-Greek language as a sign of its prestige?From those times we have testimonies of the historians about Hellenic ethnic identity of chief historical protagonist among Macedonians. 10.Analysis of the entire corpus of Macedonian-authored inscriptions reveals a form of Greek which is quite different from the Ionic dialects and which has self-developed Greek features , thus proving that the Greek language among Macedonians is not borrowing.
    :6.Expansion of Macedonia under Alexander the Great shows progressive patronage of Hellenic way of life, culture and civilization.The entire enormous opus of linguistic material on three continents was exclusively in Greek.Isnt it strange that the dominating Macedonian element, if it was ethnically of alien nature vis-a-vis Greeks, did not leave hundreds, if not thousands monuments in its alleged separate, non-Greek language as a sign of its prestige?From those times we have testimonies of the historians about Hellenic ethnic identity of chief historical protagonist among Macedonians.

    WHY CITIZENS OF FYROM HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ANCIENT MACEDONIANS AND WHY ANCIENT MACEDONIANS WERE A PURE GREEK ETHNOS

    1.Ancient Macedonians were a conglomerate of Greek tribes and clans constituting a conservative monarchistic military democracy , essentially an evolved extension of Dorian and on longer period, Indo-European system of social architecture. 2.Ancient Macedonians were long time before Phillip and Alexander considered Greeks by other Greeks and they were allowed to participate in the Olympic Games, an event in which only ethnic Greeks were allowed to participate.Persian used the term Yauna Takabara(Greek wearing a hat) for Macedonians already in the V century BCE 3.Dozens of epigraphic objects predating the epoch of Phillip and Alexander show clearly a Greek language of North-Western type. 4. The names of Macedonians were not an import from the south since there is a marked deficit of names of eminent Athenians and other Greeks south from Macedonia 5. From its prehistoric inception, Macedonia was an area which was for the most part, even more restrictive in size than todays Greek Macedonia.Only much later lower 15% of today's FYROM came within the borders of Macedonia, probably without significant ethnic changes among native Paeonian stock, situated from ancient times North-Eastern from Macedonians, bordering on Thracians in Eastern FYROM, Dardanians in the line of Tetovo-Skoplje-Kumanovo and Illyrians proper from Ohrid to Kičevo and Debar.As you may see, FYROM was essentially never Macedonia neither ethnically nor politically Ταινίες: 6.Expansion of Macedonia under Alexander the Great shows progressive patronage of Hellenic way of life, culture and civilization.The entire enormous opus of linguistic material on three continents was exclusively in Greek.Isnt it strange that the dominating Macedonian element, if it was ethnically of alien nature vis-a-vis Greeks, did not leave hundreds, if not thousands monuments in its alleged separate, non-Greek language as a sign of its prestige?From those times we have testimonies of the historians about Hellenic ethnic identity of chief historical protagonist among Macedonians. 10.Analysis of the entire corpus of Macedonian-authored inscriptions reveals a form of Greek which is quite different from the Ionic dialects and which has self-developed Greek features , thus proving that the Greek language among Macedonians is not borrowing.
    :6.Expansion of Macedonia under Alexander the Great shows progressive patronage of Hellenic way of life, culture and civilization.The entire enormous opus of linguistic material on three continents was exclusively in Greek.Isnt it strange that the dominating Macedonian element, if it was ethnically of alien nature vis-a-vis Greeks, did not leave hundreds, if not thousands monuments in its alleged separate, non-Greek language as a sign of its prestige?From those times we have testimonies of the historians about Hellenic ethnic identity of chief historical protagonist among Macedonians.

    WHY CITIZENS OF FYROM HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ANCIENT MACEDONIANS AND WHY ANCIENT MACEDONIANS WERE A PURE GREEK ETHNOS

    1.Ancient Macedonians were a conglomerate of Greek tribes and clans constituting a conservative monarchistic military democracy , essentially an evolved extension of Dorian and on longer period, Indo-European system of social architecture. 2.Ancient Macedonians were long time before Phillip and Alexander considered Greeks by other Greeks and they were allowed to participate in the Olympic Games, an event in which only ethnic Greeks were allowed to participate.Persian used the term Yauna Takabara(Greek wearing a hat) for Macedonians already in the V century BCE 3.Dozens of epigraphic objects predating the epoch of Phillip and Alexander show clearly a Greek language of North-Western type. 4. The names of Macedonians were not an import from the south since there is a marked deficit of names of eminent Athenians and other Greeks south from Macedonia 5. From its prehistoric inception, Macedonia was an area which was for the most part, even more restrictive in size than todays Greek Macedonia.Only much later lower 15% of today's FYROM came within the borders of Macedonia, probably without significant ethnic changes among native Paeonian stock, situated from ancient times North-Eastern from Macedonians, bordering on Thracians in Eastern FYROM, Dardanians in the line of Tetovo-Skoplje-Kumanovo and Illyrians proper from Ohrid to Kičevo and Debar.As you may see, FYROM was essentially never Macedonia neither ethnically nor politically Ταινίες: 6.Expansion of Macedonia under Alexander the Great shows progressive patronage of Hellenic way of life, culture and civilization.The entire enormous opus of linguistic material on three continents was exclusively in Greek.Isnt it strange that the dominating Macedonian element, if it was ethnically of alien nature vis-a-vis Greeks, did not leave hundreds, if not thousands monuments in its alleged separate, non-Greek language as a sign of its prestige?From those times we have testimonies of the historians about Hellenic ethnic identity of chief historical protagonist among Macedonians. 10.Analysis of the entire corpus of Macedonian-authored inscriptions reveals a form of Greek which is quite different from the Ionic dialects and which has self-developed Greek features , thus proving that the Greek language among Macedonians is not borrowing.
    :6.Expansion of Macedonia under Alexander the Great shows progressive patronage of Hellenic way of life, culture and civilization.The entire enormous opus of linguistic material on three continents was exclusively in Greek.Isnt it strange that the dominating Macedonian element, if it was ethnically of alien nature vis-a-vis Greeks, did not leave hundreds, if not thousands monuments in its alleged separate, non-Greek language as a sign of its prestige?From those times we have testimonies of the historians about Hellenic ethnic identity of chief historical protagonist among Macedonians.

    WHY CITIZENS OF FYROM HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ANCIENT MACEDONIANS AND WHY ANCIENT MACEDONIANS WERE A PURE GREEK ETHNOS

    1.Ancient Macedonians were a conglomerate of Greek tribes and clans constituting a conservative monarchistic military democracy , essentially an evolved extension of Dorian and on longer period, Indo-European system of social architecture. 2.Ancient Macedonians were long time before Phillip and Alexander considered Greeks by other Greeks and they were allowed to participate in the Olympic Games, an event in which only ethnic Greeks were allowed to participate.Persian used the term Yauna Takabara(Greek wearing a hat) for Macedonians already in the V century BCE 3.Dozens of epigraphic objects predating the epoch of Phillip and Alexander show clearly a Greek language of North-Western type. 4. The names of Macedonians were not an import from the south since there is a marked deficit of names of eminent Athenians and other Greeks south from Macedonia 5. From its prehistoric inception, Macedonia was an area which was for the most part, even more restrictive in size than todays Greek Macedonia.Only much later lower 15% of today's FYROM came within the borders of Macedonia, probably without significant ethnic changes among native Paeonian stock, situated from ancient times North-Eastern from Macedonians, bordering on Thracians in Eastern FYROM, Dardanians in the line of Tetovo-Skoplje-Kumanovo and Illyrians proper from Ohrid to Kičevo and Debar.As you may see, FYROM was essentially never Macedonia neither ethnically nor politically Ταινίες: 6.Expansion of Macedonia under Alexander the Great shows progressive patronage of Hellenic way of life, culture and civilization.The entire enormous opus of linguistic material on three continents was exclusively in Greek.Isnt it strange that the dominating Macedonian element, if it was ethnically of alien nature vis-a-vis Greeks, did not leave hundreds, if not thousands monuments in its alleged separate, non-Greek language as a sign of its prestige?From those times we have testimonies of the historians about Hellenic ethnic identity of chief historical protagonist among Macedonians. 10.Analysis of the entire corpus of Macedonian-authored inscriptions reveals a form of Greek which is quite different from the Ionic dialects and which has self-developed Greek features , thus proving that the Greek language among Macedonians is not borrowing.
    :6.Expansion of Macedonia under Alexander the Great shows progressive patronage of Hellenic way of life, culture and civilization.The entire enormous opus of linguistic material on three continents was exclusively in Greek.Isnt it strange that the dominating Macedonian element, if it was ethnically of alien nature vis-a-vis Greeks, did not leave hundreds, if not thousands monuments in its alleged separate, non-Greek language as a sign of its prestige?From those times we have testimonies of the historians about Hellenic ethnic identity of chief historical protagonist among Macedonians.

    WHY CITIZENS OF FYROM HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ANCIENT MACEDONIANS AND WHY ANCIENT MACEDONIANS WERE A PURE GREEK ETHNOS

    1.Ancient Macedonians were a conglomerate of Greek tribes and clans constituting a conservative monarchistic military democracy , essentially an evolved extension of Dorian and on longer period, Indo-European system of social architecture. 2.Ancient Macedonians were long time before Phillip and Alexander considered Greeks by other Greeks and they were allowed to participate in the Olympic Games, an event in which only ethnic Greeks were allowed to participate.Persian used the term Yauna Takabara(Greek wearing a hat) for Macedonians already in the V century BCE 3.Dozens of epigraphic objects predating the epoch of Phillip and Alexander show clearly a Greek language of North-Western type. 4. The names of Macedonians were not an import from the south since there is a marked deficit of names of eminent Athenians and other Greeks south from Macedonia 5. From its prehistoric inception, Macedonia was an area which was for the most part, even more restrictive in size than todays Greek Macedonia.Only much later lower 15% of today's FYROM came within the borders of Macedonia, probably without significant ethnic changes among native Paeonian stock, situated from ancient times North-Eastern from Macedonians, bordering on Thracians in Eastern FYROM, Dardanians in the line of Tetovo-Skoplje-Kumanovo and Illyrians proper from Ohrid to Kičevo and Debar.As you may see, FYROM was essentially never Macedonia neither ethnically nor politically Ταινίες: 6.Expansion of Macedonia under Alexander the Great shows progressive patronage of Hellenic way of life, culture and civilization.The entire enormous opus of linguistic material on three continents was exclusively in Greek.Isnt it strange that the dominating Macedonian element, if it was ethnically of alien nature vis-a-vis Greeks, did not leave hundreds, if not thousands monuments in its alleged separate, non-Greek language as a sign of its prestige?From those times we have testimonies of the historians about Hellenic ethnic identity of chief historical protagonist among Macedonians. 10.Analysis of the entire corpus of Macedonian-authored inscriptions reveals a form of Greek which is quite different from the Ionic dialects and which has self-developed Greek features , thus proving that the Greek language among Macedonians is not borrowing.
    :6.Expansion of Macedonia under Alexander the Great shows progressive patronage of Hellenic way of life, culture and civilization.The entire enormous opus of linguistic material on three continents was exclusively in Greek.Isnt it strange that the dominating Macedonian element, if it was ethnically of alien nature vis-a-vis Greeks, did not leave hundreds, if not thousands monuments in its alleged separate, non-Greek language as a sign of its prestige?From those times we have testimonies of the historians about Hellenic ethnic identity of chief historical protagonist among Macedonians.

    WHY CITIZENS OF FYROM HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ANCIENT MACEDONIANS AND WHY ANCIENT MACEDONIANS WERE A PURE GREEK ETHNOS


    11. There is a gap of 900 years from the Macedonia of Alexander to the arrival of Slavs, a North-Eastern agricultural people whose arrival is recorded by Gothic, Byzantine and Arab sources, confirmed with archaeology and attested with the extensive name changes of ancient geonymes.These Slavs, i.e. the part of them which overlapped Macedonia never took the name Macedonians for themselves, nor there was any mixture between the Greek and Vlach Christian population and the pagan newcomers.It would appear that from 7th and 8th century to the formation of Samuel Empire in 10th these people are known as Bulgarians.The first Slavic text in the area of FYROM show Bulgarian features, while the Bitola text confirms the Bulgarian ethnology of the dynasty and people.DAI doesnt mention Slavic Macedonians.Serbs in 13/14th century never mentioned Macedonians, but very often Greeks, Albanians, Vlachs and even the tiny Saxon community.The Macedonia proper during Serb rule was a separate province, with Greek as official language. 12. Not a single Turkish document mentions any Macedonian ethnicity nor the books by Turkish travelers.Not a single local work of literacy mentions MacedoniansMacedonian language etc.There are hundred references from other Balkanites, Westerners, Russians all the way to 19th century about Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs, Albanians, Jews, Vlachs but no Macedonians 13. The process of Bulgarian national awakening in FYROM, which began as a movement for Slavic-Bulgarian literacy, Church and school and ended with creation of VMRO (fmr. BMORK) is extensively studied and confirms that there wasnt an atom of any authentic Macedonian ethnic feeling among the population 14.Only in late 19th, early 20th century, conclusive with Yugoslav decision, based on the Comminterns decision to establish a Macedonian nationality and state there are occasional and sporadic appearances of the Pseudomacedonian idea, in many cases by authors which renounced them later, like Misirkov. The population still considers itself Bulgarian, with lower percentage thinking of itself as “Macedonian but not necessary in opposition with the broader Bulgarian national feeling.Most organization and eminent individuals fighting either for “Independent Macedonian or Greater Bulgaria expressed their Bulgarian identity and that is extensively documented. 15. Even after the process of ethno-lingustic mutation, most folkloristic and lingustic features of the post-1944 Macedonian ethnos have strong analogies with Bulgarian vernacular. So, Pseudomacedonians, what are you doing constructively, excluding your opposition of overwhelming, rigidly scientifically analyzed evidence for the Greekness of Macedonia and Macedonians, your opposition to the fact that no significant cultural and biological admixture happened between Slavs and Greeks, that history doesn know for Macedonian identity of Slavic type attested in documents and other points which testify against your ideology?

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    February 27 2010:
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